To all those who say on threads 'I am too scared to go into feminism' - this topic isn't scary!

[GetOrfMoiLand]

I think it's a shame when I see threads where the OP says 'I am too scared to put this in feminism' or something.

I am certainly not knowledgeable about feminist theory, but have never felt that my opinion on this thread wasn't wanted or I was vilified for stating what I believed.

I think this topic is pretty inclusive - yes some people are forthright with their opinions, but nobody's word is god, and I would hate to think that mumsnetters were put off contributing to threads in this topic because they mistakenly think the posters on here are viragos.

lenin, she didn't say you were doing that. She said it was a possible reason. It is.

I would also say that one reason - maybe the biggest one after trolling - is that they may have got sucked into mutual misunderstanding, which I think does happen too much on both sides.

1. They have genuinely been treated unfairly, despite being reasonable.

Wouldn't you say that's what this means?

Ah, ok, I missed that lenin. Apologies - that is rude.

Isn't it possible that Lenin may genuinely think it a shame that some feel bullied? Wanting to be popular is a really odd construction to put on it.

Lenin is generally well-known and liked across all of MN. She doesn't need to court popularity for a start.

And MIlly, interesting though your numbered points were, they didn't address the question, which was about people feeling bullied and saying so, not whether or not they post at all.

Floyjoy

I used the term weak ass. I was paraphrasing. I wasn't talking about you.
I was relating your comments about how if the feminism threads were too difficult then posters should just ignore them.
Other comments around it were saying that regular posters on the feminism section were upset by the threads criticism the feminism section.

It just struck me that we can't be selective. Either everyone should just toughen up or we should all be more sensitive when we engage.

Does that not make sense or did you think I was attributing both points of view to you when you only articulated the first?

Hully, I was considering being treated unfairly as including being bullied. Some people no doubt have been bullied, but some of the people complaining about being bullied are themselves bullies. Lenin seemed quite happy to 'take on board' the injured feelings of people who themselves have been very cruel. And by that I mean they were cruel before you gave them the opportunity on these threads to act as a sounding board so they could continue their vendetta.

I like it here and I am sorry that some of the more impassioned personalities appear to have stopped posting. If Dittany has taken a break because of the amount of thinly veiled criticism directed at her recently (and yes, it is all too obvious who people are getting at, even if they don't say it out loud), then I think it's a crying shame, and the feminism board, and MN in particular is a poorer place. Even if you don't agree with absolutely everything she says, it is the committment, the sheer uncompramising-ness (?) of her position that is beneficial. We need women like her, SGM, SAF, Sakura and HerBex to push the direction of the debate, otherwise the status quo will never change. Every movement needs its radicals.

I don't post here as much as I should do, partly because the threads move so quickly in some instances and also because most people say what I want to say, only better. But I realise that this is my inadequacy, and I need to think quicker and dive in deeper. I certainly don't find it unwelcoming.

And it is faaaaaar less scary here than it is on AIBU.

And by that I mean they were cruel before you gave them the opportunity on these threads to act as a sounding board so they could continue their vendetta.

Who? Me? Gave who?

im usually a polite person and as ive said before-i dont want to fight with other women-i have no reason to.
i am getting a bit fed up of the "lets give the rad fems a kick in the bollocks"though!
yep-i have got some extreem views and im not going to change them[unless i want to]-
it feels like we are being told to "shut up"a bit-or make some kind of appology.
it also feels like people are trying to "police"us on here a bit.
in fact it feels like we are being treated as naughty little schoolgirls.
personnally-i dont need policeing and im not going to be wavering my views.
yep-this is a vocal section and im glad it is-we are often "shut up"in rl.
this is a great place to come as there are others that really understand.
simple solution-if you dont like it-stay away.
another solution-instead of writing a thousand posts about how horrible place is-get stuck in-say it how it is-stick with it-and youll see that we are actually ok.
another solution-stick around long enough-you will "get"us then.
another solution-go and tell aibi to shut the fuck up and see what happens-
you will then see that we are actually ok!
or what we could do is-all us feminists could go along to chat or aibu and pick out one of the more vocal women and pick on her.....
everytime we have a ruck-we could also pull her name up[even if the thread has nothing to do with her or shes not around]......sounds good eh!!!
personnally-ive had to appologise all of my life and i come to the point that i couldnt do it no more-thats why im here.
im not going to be made to shut up in a feminist section and im not going to be made uncomfatable for any of my views.
im not fighting with anyone but it works both ways-i feel that rad fems are getting shafted here at the moment.

pag
I used the term weak ass. I was paraphrasing. I wasn't talking about you.
I was relating your comments about how if the feminism threads were too difficult then posters should just ignore them.
Other comments around it were saying that regular posters on the feminism section were upset by the threads criticism the feminism section.

It just struck me that we can't be selective. Either everyone should just toughen up or we should all be more sensitive when we engage.

Does that not make sense or did you think I was attributing both points of view to you when you only articulated the first?

I didn't think you were saying specifically that I was weak ass. As I said, I didn't totally get your point and I do now.

I don't think people are that sensitive to criticism of the feminist boards in general but I think people are sensitive to attacks from people opposed to feminist politics who post on the boards. I wouldn't go on an MRA site and just post stuff to wind them up and I can't imagine doing it on a site where MRAs were discussing residency of their children (which I guess is a sensitive issue) even though I don't like the politics of the site. There are sections of MN that I don't really like that much but I don't go on to attack posters who do get something out of them or question how the section functions. I don't really understand why people feel the need to do that here.

I do question the whole rhetoric of 'women here frighten me off' as it does seem a bit odd if you're interested in feminism.

I give up.

It's simple. Some people feel bullied. Deny the legitamacy of their feelings if you want to. Turn them into an attack and get defensive.

I'm out of here.

I think its easy to resolve. Dont tell someone they arent a feminist because they do something you, personally, from your privilaged position, disapprove of.
Peasy.

Who's this 'you' who is denying people's legitimate feelings? It's not me, surely, who neither bullies nor is bullied.
People will have to accept that they are not going to get along with every other poster.
I can't do anything about people's sharp responses/sensitive feelings. All that can be done is challenge/report or refuse to engage, on an individual level.

What else is there to say?

is it only me that has no idea what the conversation between Lenin and Milly is about?? Totally

Lenin, I don't feel a need to see off trolls. MNHQ does that anyway.

The general argument that you and Hully are putting forward is that we need to listen to some people who are upset by the way they have been treated. I have had upsetting things said to me, but I don't feel a need to dredge up examples of them from the past. Both of you are only prepared to consider the feelings of the people who are prepared to do that, but to do so is in no way conducive to us joining together. It is just making more people stop posting on feminist issues, because they feel scrutinised and judged.

stop stirring Hully.
yep-some people do feel bullied-i agree and im not denying theyre feelings at all.
but ive also got the right to stand up for myself-
and im saying how i feel also-
so dont tell me that im turning them into a attack and getting defensive.
i feel that everyone is welcome and most people on here[and those that lurk]know that i will talk to everyone and politly talk.
it works both ways Hully.

But what Riven, even if someone is holding what you consider to be anti-feminist viewpoint, can't you disagree? that's a broad broad spectrum of viewpoints, where do you draw the line? And you and I may draw the line differently, who is right?