To all those who say on threads 'I am too scared to go into feminism' - this topic isn't scary!

[GetOrfMoiLand]

I think it's a shame when I see threads where the OP says 'I am too scared to put this in feminism' or something.

I am certainly not knowledgeable about feminist theory, but have never felt that my opinion on this thread wasn't wanted or I was vilified for stating what I believed.

I think this topic is pretty inclusive - yes some people are forthright with their opinions, but nobody's word is god, and I would hate to think that mumsnetters were put off contributing to threads in this topic because they mistakenly think the posters on here are viragos.

I think if you call someone a misogynist rape apologiser, and they express horror and rebuttal and outline their position again, then yes.

And equally if a statement is made and a question asked on the basis of that statement, then yes again. It's common decency if nothing else.

What about the people who do like posting on here?

In real life, I spend plenty of time fending off calls from people who can't be actually arsed to do anything, telling me what I am doing wrong. It's fucking draining. I'm sure anyone involved in any political action will say the same thing. In fact, I've just remembered that was the very first thread I posted on.

I like it here. Lots of people like it here, else there wouldn't be lots of posters and lots of topics. But lots of people saying they liked it wouldn't make for a nice, heated thread would it now. People just get on and post.

Everywhere else I post about feminism, you have to keep going back to 101. You have to keep defending basic principles to people who just pop in to have a dig. You have to be light-hearted, fun, not too controversial. That doesn't inspire me. Quite happy to help out where people do ask things, but that's not my reason for being here.

I love here that I can actually express a strong opinion. And be met with a strong opinion. And read things where you think fucking hell, I never thought about it like that, and you can't sleep for mulling it over. And by morning you've a new thought it to add to the mix. I don't want the feminist board to just be a nice little unchallenging chat. I want it to be a mix. I want it to include those posters that give you a bolt. That does not make for a nice cosy easy place all the time. Social change does not come out of nice little cozy places.

And I don't see that just here. The thing that is great about MN is that there are lots of intelligent women speaking their minds. You never get to see that normally.

All I can see here, and on the other recent similar threads, is a few people (including people who have now been outed as trolls with a specific agenda of attacking Dittany) posting saying mean feminist board, it's not what I want it to be. And having some nasty digs while they're at it. Meanwhile, life continues on the board, with people still posting, new people starting etc. I can see some points people make, but as we're not a monolith with central command governing all posters, and are instead just humans posting on the interweb, I can't see the solution.

Ah, I got the impression things moved on rather fast on that thread - I was thinking more generally that people don't always respond to questions and sometimes it's for good reasons, but if we're back to discussing teh specifics of that thread I'll butt out as I wasn't on it.

I do think there are situations where it's valid to post a one-liner and leave it - you may be mistaken but sometimes it's just not healthy to engage. I'm thinking the kids of threads where you think someone is saying something potentially offensive/hurtful, you say you think it's out of line and report, and you bugger off for the day. I wouldn't want those to turn into big 'explain yourself' rows, and HQ generally tell people off for doing so.

Politeness.

If it wasn't popular to say it, there wouldn't have been multiple threads with lots of people saying it.

One Milly, just the one (tho it went over two as was long).

Apart from one other loony one started by MarySue that was soon dispatched.

Sorry, hully, is 'politeness' in response to me?

So that's four then, including this one. And there have been others in the past.

Four threads where people criticise specific posters repeatedly.

I don't think people should have to come on to defend themselves. I think it is really impressive that Sakura has not come on or gotten involved at all.

The problem is some act as if they are the moderator. Too quick to dismiss and rubbish other poster's opinions, and indulge in name calling.It is in fact quite cliquey and bit off putting.I do lurk, a lot, but all the arguing and name calling is off putting.

lrd - no, it was in answer to Alice's: "I can't see the solution."

milly - okay, well let's look at it another way, if people feel the need for those threads, are they all delusional, or is there some truth in it?

On this thread, 'they' aren't here. As Milly points out, sakura's steered clear, dittany isn't posting, and as far as I can see the people who are acting like moderators are those complaining about people acting like moderators.

There's a nice thread of Riven's about fairytales to read to her daughter, why don't we head over there instead of this?

Exoticfruits, if it's a public forum with lots of members, then why would anybody care if one person tells you to fuck off the boards? That person is only one among many. I think that's a disingenuous claim, I've never seen anyone do that anyway - I have seen plenty of 'I can't believe you're saying that HERE', which is fair comment.

If someone is following you across threads, then report, or take it to PM.

It's not right to discuss Dittany like this when she's not here - it's not as if anyone's been a shy retiring violet when she is here, after all. It's not as if this is your (pl) one chance to let it all out, is it? Dittany's been told to fuck off and called awful names plenty of times, by plenty of posters.

Actually, forget that Milly. It's all been done to death.

Perceptions and perspectives.

I'll go and get on with derailing.

hully - ta for clarifying.

What 'need' do these threads fulfill?

You want to criticize a poster? Talk to them.

Individuals can be polite.

The feminist board is made up of lots of individuals. So as I said "as we're not a monolith with central command governing all posters, and are instead just humans posting on the interweb" that isn't really a solution.

And if not everyone can remain polite when they are speaking passionately about something they really fucking care about, then hey I'll take the passion instead.

lrd - you can't if they won't engage. People were banging their heads against the wall so hard that blood was drenching the screen. Like I said, it was born from huge frustration.

But I'm going now, it's all got very circular agian.

pag
But floyjoy...erm... does not that become a circular argument..
If you are too weak ass to go on feminism threads and cope with it then don't
If you are too weak ass to cope with a thread criticising the feminism section, don't go on them

Not sure what you're point is. I wouldn't use the term 'weak ass' for anyone on these boards. I choose, like anyone, what I want to post on and what I read. I just don't see why people complain that other posters stop them posting here. Trolls and rape apologists don't stop me from posting - I make a choice not to engage sometimes and sometimes not to read. It's up to me.

X-posts with lots. I shouldn't type so bloody slowly!

And I agree with AliceTwirled: I like it here.

Last one - Alice, of course it's great if people express themselves passionately, it doesn't exclude politeness towards others.

Ok, wasn't on that thread, can't comment on it (and this isn't me not engaging).

But, honestly, the criticisms seem to be that posters are consistently mean/inappropriate ... I find it a struggle to believe that you couldn't find a single thread on which this behaviour was displayed, on which to engage with them. I can understand frustration about it all, but it does feel as if you're saying that they had to engage with you on your terms and nothing else would do, which seems a bit unfair to me.

Hully, again, to quote myself "And if not everyone can remain polite when they are speaking passionately about something they really fucking care about, then hey I'll take the passion instead."

I said if.

I don't think they are all delusional but I think they have a variety of reasons for coming on them. I would suggest:

1. They are an MRA troll.
2. They genuinely do hold really anti-feminist views and are angry that people were not welcoming of such views.
3. They like to control what goes on on MN, and are annoyed that people like, for example SAF, are listened to, when as far as they are concerned she hasn't served her time or been diffident enough to them. They don't actually care about feminism at all. It is just a version of office politics to them.
4. They are a feminist but hold certain views that other feminists are not really that interested in discussing.
5. They have genuinely been treated unfairly, despite being reasonable.
6. They have genuinely been treated unfairly, but frequently name call/insult people/dredge up threads and mis-represent people's views, so people feel disinclined to listen to their complaints.
7. They are trying to make themselves popular with certain other posters.