To all those who say on threads 'I am too scared to go into feminism' - this topic isn't scary!

[GetOrfMoiLand]

I think it's a shame when I see threads where the OP says 'I am too scared to put this in feminism' or something.

I am certainly not knowledgeable about feminist theory, but have never felt that my opinion on this thread wasn't wanted or I was vilified for stating what I believed.

I think this topic is pretty inclusive - yes some people are forthright with their opinions, but nobody's word is god, and I would hate to think that mumsnetters were put off contributing to threads in this topic because they mistakenly think the posters on here are viragos.

at the thought of anyone thinking pagwatch is a cunt

I am amazed that there are regular posters on the SN board with an anti-SN agenda. How bloody awful.

Actually, thinking about it, I think I 'know' a lot of the feminism posters from the lefties threads last year. So I already recognised people when I started posting on feminism.

Are there really posters with an anti SN agenda?

I don't go on SN threads...maybe i will go and lurk for a while.

There are posters who post on the main board who are anti-sn. Claire what sit is one - thinks disabled children should be euthanised. There are a few. They never come out and say ' I hate disabled kids' in the same way that James/MRA never turn up and say ' I hate feminists'.
They talk around issues like benefits or humour but stick really nasty stuff in amongst the general chat.
It is not very easy to respond to

Fair enough saf.

I am just trying to work around the idea that most women who regard themselves as feminists feel out of step with parts of the feminism board .

Sn issues appear on the main hoard but we have our little comfy section too which feels more private.

I have another interesting thought....

People look at thread titles that pique their interest without necessarily looking at the section. So now a lot of threads are put under the Fem heading which previously might have gone in AIBU eg something about the colour pink or whatever, and posters come along to post their two pennorth as they ordinarily would, and are then thrown because the topic is looked at through the consensus feminist lens and they feel judged and found wanting.

Could that be part of it?

Pag has a good point.

As a longtime lurker but relatively new poster, who is has radical AND liberal tendencies, and as someone who has had a fairly fierce debate in a thread and had my beliefs (and my patience) sorely tested, I have to say that this board is friendly overall. As I mentioned above, every single query and question that I have seen asked, I have seen answered.

Book suggestions are really quite rare, and seem to happen in two contexts: if someone is asking very large questions along the lines of 'how are modern women disadvantaged' (so it would take half a day to type a post big enough), or if an issue has been argued to a standstill, usually in quite advanced terms (such as the evopsych threads a while back), and really the contributor would benefit from reading a certain publication.

Sending new posters to Feminism 101 is very common practice on nearly all the feminist blogs and spaces I frequent. It prevents clogging and endless repetition. WriterofDreams - you keep giving book suggestions as an example of a dig or intellectual posing, when actually I really, genuinely don't think that this is the spirit in which they are offered.

I'm not suggesting that there are posters who don't have legitimate grievances, but let's not pretend that there aren't posters on this board who are robustly challenged and then spend months telling all of MN how awful and exclusionary the feminists are. While of course feminism shouldn't pride itself on being exclusionary or aggressive, five minutes on almost any other feminist space would see posters arguing in a way that makes MN Feminism look like a pile of bunnies.

"erm, because the way "you" are alienates lots of women with broadly feminist attitudes. "You" say you want to highlight feminist attitudes, yet "you" scare them off."

Who is 'you' though? As i said earlier it's a message board with different people posting on it at different times. There is no single hive mind

Maybe malinois.

I was just trying to articulate why there is conflict about the board rather than trying to decide who was responsible.

I think it stems from two loose groupings of people who both feel differently about the subject matter but both feel the board is intended for them

Didn't express that very well....

Whoever thinks posting on MN feminist section is scary should try posting anything remotely liberal or egalitarian on Yahoo or the Daily Mail. Then you'll be shot down in flames, and not in a nice I-disagree-with-your-logic kind of way but in a you-are-a-lesbian-man-hater-bane-of-society kind of way.

The feminist section is mild compared. Sure, people get worked up cos they feel passionate about what they're saying but it's a political movement not a comedy club.

I've only been posting for a little while and everyone's been luverly..

pag that is awful to hear.

For my tuppence worth:

If you disagree with someone in this section, not for what they say but for the way they say it, why not make that point on the thread?

I do understand this is partly a question of how thick skinned you are and whether or not you feel these things are personal. IMO, they're not. I have had run-ins with some of the 'established' posters in this section and there are all sorts of topics where disagreements between posters who post here regularly are almost a given. No-one has yet kicked me off the topic or stopped replying to my posts just because I observed that such-and-such a post was rude. OTOH threads where people just complain about the feminists don't seem to go anywhere. The posters who might have modified their behaviour or expressed sympathy or explained why someone was taking offence can't do that, because the thread is out of context.

I do think it is not on to insist all posters who ask innocent questions should get shot down. Yes, it may be annoying to answer the same question again and again, but no-one is forcing you to do it. Maybe it'd be better if Feminism had a reputation for leaving posters unanswered when the debate is going quickly? After all, that happens elsewhere and usually in the end some patient soul turns up.

(Oh, and that joaninha is a right cunt. )

Or start a thread to ask the question?

I don't think that's the biggest issue complained of though, I think it's the response to a view expressed that's outside the consensus.

joaninha The difference is that on the DM or Yahoo boards, the people tearing into you will mostly be morons, usually with a rather poor grasp of English spelling. It's a bit like having monkeys at the zoo throwing poo at you, not very pleasant but in the final analysis not really that intimidating.

On feminist boards, the people tearing into you will be ferociously intelligent and passionate people, usually with an entire armoury of feminist theory to batter you into submission with.

I've been on the receiving end of a full salvo from the HMS Dworkin and Daly and spent the rest of the afternoon rocking in the corner trying to convince myself I'm not actually a woman-hating patriarchal stooge.

Yes, I think threads to ask questions are good, and I agree that's not the main issue (or rather, often one poster doesn't think they need to ask any questions; the other thinks they obviously do ... it gets crap on both sides).

I wasn't just talking about areas of knowledge though. I do mean, if you don't like the way someone is talking to you or to others, it is possible to post and either ask them if they intended to come across like that or say you think they're upsetting other people. Yes, some people will get cross. Others won't. But much better - if you can, if you're not likely to get upset by it and some will - to make the point in context where it can be sorted out between posters.

Just reading this and wanted to say that most of the threads in Feminism aren't actually scary. Looking at the moment there are discussions on Sex and the City, fairy tales, referring to women as 'girls', and whether Rebekah Brooks should be seen as a failed female role model (or something along those lines). Although someone did pop up to talk about 'institutionalised misandry' on the last of these, these are all good-natured discussions I think.

I like it that in the feminism section there is space to discuss things like "Why do only the male Octonauts get to go out on adventures?" as well as DV and rape.

I want to empahsise again (in love and harmony) that it's often too serious for me, cos I don't want serious, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it. Only my preference is for the silly.