To all those who say on threads 'I am too scared to go into feminism' - this topic isn't scary!

[GetOrfMoiLand]

I think it's a shame when I see threads where the OP says 'I am too scared to put this in feminism' or something.

I am certainly not knowledgeable about feminist theory, but have never felt that my opinion on this thread wasn't wanted or I was vilified for stating what I believed.

I think this topic is pretty inclusive - yes some people are forthright with their opinions, but nobody's word is god, and I would hate to think that mumsnetters were put off contributing to threads in this topic because they mistakenly think the posters on here are viragos.

Wait, is Garlic GraceAgain?

I am so behind.

I have no idea who Graceagain is, I agree with posts based on their content rather than who said them. I may also find myself disagreeing with the same poster further down a thread.

In my experience this is the only topic (apart from AIBU at very rare times) where posts descend into personal discussions and fights. I keep reading time and again that this an open topic, available for anyone to post on, but when you know your topic will descend into the ridiculousness that this one has, why bother? Surely all that back and forth should happen on PM as most other people have no idea what's going on?

Also in answer to people who say posters coming on and telling you to read a book are only being helpful, I say why bother coming on and saying that? If a poster's thread isn't up to your standard (ie not informed enough) just stay away don't come on and patronise them by telling them to read a book. Either engage with them and explain the problem you have with what they say or stay quiet.

I agree with another poster (can't remember name sorry) who said that posters here often make cryptic comments about other posters which is very very annoying and ridiculously passive aggressive. If someone came on the relationships topic and got replies along the lines of "You're clearly NPD"..."Oh yes I agree totally NPD do you remember that time when famousposter said that about someone else and..." and so on with injokes it would be considered very bad form but here it seems to be the norm.

I have been thinking about all of it and I think this.

I don't think it's about feminism per se. I think that you are a very tight knit group of posters (and have become so over time with meet-ups/marches etc as detailed earlier), which is a natural and inevitable development. And by group of posters I am thinking of Saf, SGM, Proles, Stayfrosty others wot I can't remember, and that part of what comprises the solidarity and tight-knittedness is a common perception of being under attack (by mras) and of having to defend feminist principles. Part of being this group also means that you have developed several accepted theories and ways of viewing the world that no longer even need thinking about because general consensus has been reached.

I think that other posters who wander in feel alienated and excluded by this, but when they say so, that feeds into the 'feminists under attack feeling', so a defence is mounted, which to the outsider feels like a concerted group attack.

What compounds these difficulties is that because the topic IS feminism, women feel they should be at home there. You, of course, do feel that you are welcoming (but they must expect to be challenged if coming onto a feminist board and posting in what is commonly agreed to be a non-fem fashion). And so it goes round again.

I don't know what the answer is.

And I don't have an agenda. I was just thinking about it in the bath and trying to puzzle it out.

Oh no I honestly never wanted to cause a ruck.

bibbity said something interesting upthread - "I'm a feminist and I don't much like the Mumsnet feminism/women's rights section. I understand I am not the first person to have said this (or am I not SAF, just checking???) - does it give any of you regulars pause for thought - or do you prefer to think that I am just plain wrong?"

That made me think. Just because I feel quite sanguine about coming on here and spouting my own version of stuff, doesn't mean that people are put off this section for various reasons.

But - I don't understand the vitriol levelled at some people. I mean re Dittany and Sakura. That is just bloody rude and ignorant.

All that in crowd thing is all over mumsnet though. You can go on any thread and some people will be referring to things you know fuck all about.

I went on a thread the other day where a woman complained about her DP shotuing at her, cue 64 posts saying 'well you have been shagging someone else you cow, what do you expect' and I was just 'eh?'.

Just because some posters are more prolific than others and know stuff which you don't, doesn't mean they have formed an exclusive club which excluded everyone else. Like I say, and I know this is just personal opinion and people disagree, but i think that this section has always been inclusive.

Any I will shutthefuckup now

Hully you have hit the nail on the head with your analysis. I too was reading and thinking about this in the bath last night, but can't post much on phone. I was thinking much the same thing as you have eloquently described.

Come on, we're all lovely. Group hug

It makes sense to me because it is the same effect as the sn board.

And the sn posters feel protective about each other and about their dcs. We support and advise each other and we have a set of norms and accepted positions which we understand and feel need not be rehearsed and explained.

And we get pounced on for it.
Just read a Frankie Boyle thread or a dla thread and you will read all the 'competive moaning' 'professionally offended' 'over sensitive word police' comments.
And we have regular posters who have an anti-sn agenda which makes everyone suspicious of 'genuine enquiries'

Feminism just have the added pressure that we all see ourselves as feminist. And your section is open on the nainsook board.

I suggested ages ago that there should be a separate radical feminism section which would feel safer from passing traffic.
It is actually a genius idea but everyone thinks I am a cunt and ignores it

Mine was in response to SAF but hully made sense too.

WTF is nainsook ?

SAF says 'don't know if that makes sense. perhaps we are defensive but it IS of feminism and the right to have a space where we can discuss it with peers without being sneered at or told we're crazy or overthinking or hairy lesbians or man haters or etc etc etc if we are'

Oh I agree with that too.....

What hully said.

I don't post much on here...not because it's scary....but it does seem very much so that you have to tow the 'party line'.

My feminism is fairly quiet,unless i'm pissed and get into a ruck with some of DPs mates.

I just get on with living my own life and bringing up DD (and DSs) to be equal to anyone.

And to treat everyone (male or female) fairly and equally.

When i say 'tow the party line' i mean that if you stray from the accepted rights and wrongs you do seem to get shot down in flames.

I don't think that's always the best way to make other women feel their viewpoints are valid and alienates them.