"feminine" jobs/professions.Nursing,childcare....are the reasons that they are paid less,despite generally requiring graduate qualifications,an indication of societal devaluation of "womens work?"

[MavisEnderby]

?

I am not out to slag off nurses here at all. I think nurses are essential and do a wonderful job; but if what they're studying is not really relevant to their job as public servants have I not got a right to be peed off about it? If the powers-to-be in nursing think learning about airy-fairy concepts of dignity and privacy deserve more time than drilling nurses into keeping patients hydrated, shouldn't we all be peed off?
Nothing. Nothing to do with sexism.

Wamster would it upset you to learn that I work with many nurses who are educated to masters level?

That actually they are some of the best and most caring nurses I know, that they have the ability to see the bigger picture and successfully argue the case for their patients and other potential patients because of it and have the ability to cut through some of the utter rubbish that gets thrown at us by managers.

Nursing is separate to medicine, it is not the same, medics do not get involved in the social aspect of patient care, they call us. Chronic disease management, palliative care, minor ailments and injuries, continence care ,wound care to name but a few are the remit of nurses. Of course medicine has these specialities but the bog standard uncomplicated cases gets left to us.

To say that nurses dont need a higher education is to really not understand well over half of what we do. I must add that the doctors we work alongside of in these areas do not poopoo us, but respect our professional knowledge.and ask our opinion

So nurses are on a level with road sweepers now?!

I have a suspicion the pay is better

So you are saying that the 'bog standard uncomplicated cases' get left to nurses. So there is no need for you nurses to be educated to medical (i.e. degree level) then, is there? If you only get the bog standard cases.

Also, doesn't it grate that you are now being given extra tasks and your pay has not risen in relation to these tasks?

I don't mean you personally, I mean the profession as a whole.

What? when controlled drugs and multiple drugs are being prescribed at the same time? Really you want a someone who isn't educated to high standard prescribing them for you do you?

And yes it does piss me off hugely.

I wouldn't want a nurse prescribing me anything.

Well I've news for you. Nurse prescribe. A lot.

Or rather- just so that I can't be accused of sexism- I would hate a nurse (be they male or female) to prescribe me anything. I would rather be prescribed a medication by a doctor (be they male or female).

Shit that is worrying. Presumably they cannot do this straight after qualifying? Surely (hopes to god) this is not something they can do upon qualifying?

Oh okay.

(that saline flush to keep your cannula patents gone for a burton - dr's think it's beneath them to prescribe that)

No Wamster, it takes some extra training to prescribe. However, there are lots of nurses out there with that training and they do a very good job.

No, they are educated to degree level and have done a separate qualification. Nurse prescribing has been shown to be equally as safe as doctors prescribing.

I have to say Wamster it is becoming increasingly obvious that you do not have a clue about the role of a nurse and what it actually does involve these days. So I would suggest that a position of ignorance is not the best place to pontificate about whether nurses should be educated to degree level or not.

You do however perfectly demonstrate the preconceived attitudes that nurses are battling against. I would argue that this is due to nursing being a traditionally female profession where women are expected to be subservient.

So why do they need a degree to actually qualify, then? Shouldn't it just be a non-degree qualification to begin with to become an 'ordinary' (no disrespect meant) nurse with opportunities to specialise later?
If you all need to go on these courses post qualifying, then the course isn't really up to much, is it? Do doctors have to go on prescribing courses Post qualification? I think that prescribing drugs is just part of their basic course (?)

Well that 's why its being changed to all graduate. Those points have been explained previously. do keep up.

Wamster I have refrained from posting so far but can hold back no longer. You obviously have no understating of current nurse education and no respect for nurses. Are you a male orthopaedic surgeon by any chance?

Believe me, boysrock, as long as the medical profession exists, nurses willbe subservient. They may throw you crumbs to do what they consider to be boring work now and again. Or the government may use your vanity to convince you all that working harder for higher qualifications that is not appropriately reflected in your pay is a good thing, but most people are sharp enough to see that nurses are subservient to doctors.
Medicine is a proper profession and nurses cannot rise to that level.

Sorry understanding (bloody autocorrect)

Ah now the true colours are coming out. Get down you silly little woman you aren't equal?

Dream on.

That's what I thought too boys rock

Yeah, just because you don't like the truth you turn this into a sexist argument. Rubbish. This has NOTHING to do with gender. A MALE nurse is not as good as a FEMALE doctor. A MALE nurse is not as good as a FEMALE doctor. Geddit? NOTHING to do with sexism!

I would rather be prescribed a drug by a FEMALE doctor than a MALE nurse.

In very different ways we are equal. Separate but equal because nursing is not medicine.

Is it necessary to shout? You sound rather irate.

Yes, it is necessary to reinforce my point that the reason I believe medicine to be superior to nursing has nothing to do with gender.
When will nurses stop dreaming? You are not equal to doctors in terms of pay, prestige or power. You may do a good job and the country may be lost without you all, but equal? No way. It's like saying the local pub's football team are equal to Man Utd.