Silly question maybe - can a man be a feminist?

[biryani]

After a few glasses last night I got into a discussion with a male aqcuaintance about childcare etc. This man claims he's a feminist because he shares childcare etc with his wife, and has read Naomi Woolf and Andrea Dworkin. I said something like " you can't be a feminist because you're a man!", meaning that feminism arises out of a specifically female take on the world and that a man cannot experience this, being a man, and therefore cannot be a feminist as such although he may empathise and understand female issues.

now sober, I'm not sure. Who's right?

Sexism means unequal treatment between the sexes that acts to the detriment of women.

Er, no.

Sexism means unequal treatment between the sexes.

I wonder what james wrote to get it deleted? ( must have hit a nerve!!! DIRECT HIT!)

those that would run for political office would not deserve, those that would deserve wuold not run- socrates-

those men that might call them selves feminists.................... hmm seeing a parallel

can men be pro feminist? definitely. should men run around calling themselves feminists? probably not, No. if you want to call us feminists on a one by one basis, that might be something, but its not like those of us who actually care should be lining up for a badge, we should just continue being human beings.... Should MRA's burn thier string vests? no they should just evolve. they are idiots and no one, male of female should be giving them any attention, let alone positive.

so far most men that have self declared as feminist on this thread have been idiots, and I suspect the OP's freind was also tipsy after the vino and was perhaps after an opportunity... for what i dont know nor care. but the question remains unanswered.

from my POV as a man:
I don't think those of us men who would actually consider ourselves to have feminist thinking would need to be called it in order for us to behave that way, that's why this thread is suspiciously devoid of men who have a sensible opinion on it, but not devoice of opinion. Quite frankly, we are part of the problem unless we are constantly challenging our male peers and its really not our place to demand to be called feminists. A pig demanding to be called a dove does not make it so.....

James was deleted for deliberate shit-stirrng

oh, what a shame.... too bad he wasn't here for "the debate!"

Daisy, do you really think only a 'handful' of men act like decent human beings? Isn't that very offensive thing to say? Would you like to rephrase, or dig your heels in?

And sorry that it frustrates you so much not to be able to lump all men together when you want to criticise them, but here's a tip - there are two four letter qualifiers that you can simply place before the word 'men' and not offend the tiny minority of decent ones - 'some' or 'many.' Not so hard is it?

And you are right to say this is a feminist forum... or rather a sub-forum on a website that is for PARENTS that has the byline BY PARENTS FOR PARENTS. I'm a parent, are you? Just curious.

Jamez is too busy with his own non-feminist thread, over in AIBU

go get him, lubbermummy

there are a few (minority) loud men that fuck it up for everyone, they are the rapests, the mysogenists, the ones who you are really talking about, the ones who keep women and mostly everyone down.

they are the domonique strauss kahns.. and they are successful, and influential. before they fall off the "pedistal" lots of people like to emulate them.

most of us are the silent majority, and if there is a scale of down troden, those men are barely above (or i think the phrase is next to last on the totem pole)

those men who the sun and sport are aimed squarely at are succered into believing that they have some sort of birth right (to be trolls or MRA's) and that we are actually not equal. and if as a man you dont agree, well the leaste you can do is keep your mouth the fuck shut.

i dont read those papers, i barely read as it is, too busy working and, wouldnt you know, taking care of my kids.

i dont want to go there (right now, emergency with a kid at home) and I may never leave thier site (alive)

but now that i think about the bs I've written, i'd better go and put my money where my mouth is....

If I watch porn but don't pay for it, how have I exploited anyone?

it's on Mumsnet, LM, in the AIBU section

That's flippant. Many women, including those who claim to be feminists watch porn. It has both men and women in it. Some women just hate porn and use feminism as an excuse.

barnaby... you don't pay to go on Mumsnet, but someone pays

ignorance is only sometimes an excuse for stupidity, IMO

I'll tell you what's both ignorant and stupid - that I just realised I'm on page nine responding to a post on page one. I'll go out and come in again.

If you don't like porn don't watch it. No one puts a gun to anyone's head to do it. It's a very old argument but I've never heard one that trumped it.

BananaHead...there is a village missing it's idiot

run along now

Wow, did you just come up with that? No wait, you didn't. I you notice, all of my posts have expressed opinions on the topic, not personal attacks which are not allowed. Wait, Bananahead! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! You've made my important sounding ID sound silly! You should be like a comedian or a funny bloke in a pub or a knob on a website or something.

BarnabyBananaby wrote - "a sub-forum on a website that is for PARENTS that has the byline BY PARENTS FOR PARENTS".

BarnabyBananaby wrote - "here's a tip - there are two four letter qualifiers that you can simply place before the word 'men' and not offend the tiny minority of decent ones - 'some' or 'many.'"

In its slogan, Mumsnet has exercised its legitimate right to not use the words "some" or "many". Fine. However, in the context of your tip, the slogan is not as accurate as it could be. Its accuracy would have been improved by following your tip of using qualifiers. "By parents" does not mean "by all parents". Instead it implies some or many parents. Most people would think "of course it does, no problem".

When feminists say "men", it is usually shorthand for "some men" or "many men", not "all men". The "some" or "many" is implied. Many people object when many feminists say "men" without those qualifiers. Hopefully, as more people discover what is really implied, feminists will then be held to only the same standard of linguistic accuracy as everyone else.

BarnabyBananaby wrote - "this is a feminist forum... or rather a sub-forum on a website that is for PARENTS that has the byline BY PARENTS FOR PARENTS"

Many feminists are parents. Being a feminist and a parent is not mutually exclusive.

wow, another idiot.

just when you think this thread is dead, another special person comes along.

no one puts a gun to anyones head?

OK, to paraphrase a post i made in a previous section, i have known may strippers, sated three, lived with one, and had a few porn stars stay at my house. I have never met anyone associated with that industry who was not raped, beaten and abused as a child. some women think that by taking money from men that it is somehow getting back at men in general.

without exception, as long as i have known these people they have continued to self sabotage thier lives, and most if not all have aged badly, sadly and broken.

Everyone suffers in that industry. that you are getting it for free makes no difference as there are countless others willing to pay.

there are of have been plenty of guns pulled out, knives held accross throughts and chokings done to these people long before you get your dong out and jiz on your keyboard.

just like being an feminist and a parent is not mutualy exclusive, so is being an idiot and a parent not mutually exclusive.

it was totaly your turn

Am I missing something here ?

Oh yeah, it was a two curries and some rice, its all coming back to me now....

errrrrrrrr we are an item, me and the prince.....

I find it amazing that those who attempt to speak out against feminism are abruptly banned..yet those who make posts denigrating men, or anyone who supports a non-feminist viewpoint are allowed to stay. I also think it interesting that vitriolic language is on both sides of the coin...no one is more innocent than the other.

But..to answer the OP's question. Yes, I think that men can be feminists, on the proviso that they sit down, shut up, and don't interject their "well-meaning" opinions into the discussion. Doing so means they they aren't feminists...they are simply using all this awesome privilege to dictate with patriarchal logic what true feminists know intuitively.