Silly question maybe - can a man be a feminist?

[biryani]

After a few glasses last night I got into a discussion with a male aqcuaintance about childcare etc. This man claims he's a feminist because he shares childcare etc with his wife, and has read Naomi Woolf and Andrea Dworkin. I said something like " you can't be a feminist because you're a man!", meaning that feminism arises out of a specifically female take on the world and that a man cannot experience this, being a man, and therefore cannot be a feminist as such although he may empathise and understand female issues.

now sober, I'm not sure. Who's right?

Soooo..the conclusion is.....'can a man be a feminist?'. Well. Possibly. But, it depends what you mean by a feminist, and more likely, in some circumstances, at a particular place in time, and all other things being equal, and recognising the elements of male privilidge, and patriarchy, and within the paradigm of the social construction of reality.....

'we don't really know'.??

So, yes. It WAS a silly question.

Why was it a silly question? There was more than one answer. I don't 'not know'. I know precisely what I think. As did most other posters.

A far sillier question would be one to which there was one answer and everyone just said 'yeh I agree'. Cos then what would be the point of asking it.

I know it doesn't really matter, but I don't think it's fair to make the OP think it was a 'silly question'.

living your life with feminist values, should be replaced with feminist practices, IMO, but yes, much better question.

AliceW - I wasn't being undermining of the question, but the grin didn't win it for you did it? It was supposed to be light-hearted.

I had read through all of the thread, and of course there was a mass of different opinion.

I know but I'm aware that the OP hasn't been back, and it turned into a bunfight, and I don't want them to think they caused that and were silly. Maybe I'm just being a delicate flower this eve.

OP - that's true, and I can too be a delicate flower at times.

seriously, the word 'practice' is quite important to me. It's a bit like how religous or spiritual types 'practice' their religion - not be 'perfect' but the actual practice of the belief, in action, is a bit of a key.

Ohhh, yes, this is an interesting and productive refinement to the question - not "can we call men feminists/ can men call themselves feminists" (which is definitely two very different questions with different answers, imo) but "can man live feminist lives and practice feminism?"

And I think the answer is probably "yep, but don't expect an easy time of it. OR A COOKIE."

a cookie. Hmm....I suspect that men who live/practice a feminist life don't expect/hope for/ or wish a cookie. It isn't a simple reward. IMO.

The MRAs are all over these threads now. We are watching everything. Perhaps Dadof2 would care to read some of our material since he is not as valued here for being male? I am sure Dadof2 would realize exactly what is going on if he went to AVFM for 20 minutes, and actually spent some time getting to know us. His participation would be valued.

Is dadof being headhunted ?

how hilarious

"The MRAs are all over these threads now. We are watching everything."
Well, that's just terrifying. How will we sleep?
You're not in a James Bond movie you know. But please, take him. We won't be paying the ransom though.

Apologies for unpleasant language but this is what I imagine "cookie" is referring to.

Chris Rock on black people vs n####s:
A n#### will say some shit like, "I take care of my kids." You're supposed to, you dumb motherfucker! What kind of ignorant shit is that? "I ain't never been to jail!" What do you want, a cookie?! You're not supposed to go to jail, you low-expectation-having motherfucker!

I think a man can be a feminist just as it's perfectly possible (and, alas, quite common) for a woman NOT to be a feminist.

My observation is that having daughters can be a wake-up call for some men.

to think that MRA's need to troll this site is hillarious, but then its pathetic and scary......

as i have been outed as a man, not that i was hiding, because if you have read any of my other posts you will know...., here is my thoughts.

first off, MRA's are pathetic bunch of limp dick loosers.. they are not real men, they are a throw back...

there is no male oppression. its a joke. these guys are sad, but also dangerous, because women dont bomb abortion clinics, women dont rape women, and women dont abuse peope in nearly the numbers that men do, i mean, we are talking several orders of magnitude here.....
There is no mothers for justice! there is only feminism and victims support groups. and lets be honest, fathers for justice and a crazy bunch of freaks. no kid needs to see thier dad committing a crime on tv dressed like a super hero. nothing screams "lock me the fuck up!" louder.
get real...

but as soon as some women want to organize, want equality, want to be treated as human beings..., here comes the mra cavelry in all their limp dicked glory. personally i think they must have all be raised by thag like men, cave men, and abused women, that's the only reality they know, and that's the reality they wish to attain. "do as you are told ladies and think what we tell you! and by the way, let us into your club so we can destroy from the inside and maybe get a date by pretending to be sensitive men till your hooked and then, you are HOOKED and its all over...."

such obvious predatory techniques... its pathetic.

I am a man, i would consider myself a feminist, but its not up to me to make that call. any man self proclaiming, and then telling you how he wanks to porn is seriously disturbed, and clearly NOT a feminist.

for now, im happy with the term man for equality or just Man as it should be, you know a man, as in human being, not cave man desperate to join some tribe of "lets hate them because they are different." and that's what MRA's are. they are cave men. and should go into extinction with the other prehistoric creatures.

just to add, the DUDE who sits next to me says that MRA's should burn their string vests, preferably, whilst still wearing them.

This thread has annoyed me, dismayed me and confused me. The OP asked a perfectly rasonable question. It might have been better to ask 'How can men be better (pro)feminists?' but it was still a good question.

Sorry but I have to say it, the arguements on this thread presented by some feminists have been as vile, sexist and abhorent as those presented by the MRA intervention. You are both as bad as each other. Two sides of a devalued coin that need each other in a horrible abusive symbiotic dance that doesn't take society forward.

As a parent (MN is a parenting website after all) I don't want my sons to grow up in a world where some women hate them just for being men. I dont want them to grow up in a world where some men hate women just for being women. I just can't engage with either of those view points.

The more reasonable and reasoned argumements on the thread have resonated with me and represent the way forward.

Haven't read whole thread but hahaha at:

" do you expect me to be the lone voice of reason in a sea of biased bigotry?"

YES PLEASE!!!!

Otherwise it's just basking in your privilege.