"The more hours of television a girl watches, the fewer options she believes she has in life..."

[Mmmango]

...And the more hours a boy watches, the more sexist his views become."

Interview with Geena Davis in the Wall Street Journal

I have quite mixed feelings about the article actually, she seems to have very strong evidence that there are serious problems with kids' TV, but then she just says, "Well, no one knew about it before. Now we've told them it'll all be sorted by 2015". What's that about?

iI'm gonna have to duck again.

as much as tv influences some people I've always noticed how many kids really dont take much notice and are quite aware TV isnt real. I think dynamices within the home echo far more and withing friendship groups,school IYSWIM.

I wonder how much of it could be advertising as well as children's programming. A lot of adverts are shockingly sexist and old-fashioned in the gender roles they portray.

Is part of the issue that the more time you spend on your arse staring at a screen, the less time you have to be actually doing things?

Well, Geena Davis claims to have done "the largest research study ever done on G-rated movies and television shows made for kids 11 and under", it's not like she just pulled these ideas out of nowhere.

Meditrina, how does what you've said account for the way 'sitting on your arse in front of a screen' affects boys and girls differently? Boys have less time to do things as well, but don't seem to feel their options are limited in the same way.

I think that she's speaking the truth about the representation of women/ girls on kids TV (although I haven't seen the study she was involved in ), I just feel a bit at the idea that now she can tell studio execs about it, they'll all go 'Oops, that's sexist, let's stop'.

It would be interesting to come up with a children's TV equivalent of the Bechdel Test - female characters in grown-up TV and films don't fare that well either, they are so often just there to be the girlfriend or mother.

Apart from Dora, Balamory and Nina and her neurons, I struggle to find a female lead in the programmes aimed at my DD aged 5 and a half. There are female characters, but that isn't the same thing. If anyone can name any others I'd be v interested. I suppose I ought to include 'I can cook' as well.

Mmmango: I saw it as a minor variation on options/horizons becoming more limited. Both sexes appear to be suffering as a result of over-exposure to television.

Tougholdbird: there's also Peppa Pig, Tweenies, Fifi Flowertot, the Little Princess; then Blue Peter has equal female presenters as does Newsround and programmes like Smart (or successor); Danni's House and Tracey Beaker. Also female Power Rangers.

Thanks Meditrina, not heard of Danni's house, will check it out, and not ready for Tracy, but how could I forget Peppa! Not exactly spoilt for choice though.

And the Sarah Jane Adventures too.

Also, mmmango, I think I came at this from the angle of their being a population of girls and of that population, those who watched most Tv has the most limited horizons; hence thoughts of changing viewing habits and how to encourage a wider range of activities. I hadn't thought so much about the boys, but it does sound as if they are also suffering a diminution if they spend to long at the screen, even if it manifests itself in a different way. So again a change of viewing habits - and generally less screen time - could form a positive way forward.

american tv is generally crap though

Just because it has a female protagonist, doesn't make it healthy viewing. Sadly.

Today dd, who has been steamed up by this issue for a while, wrote a letter to CBeebies about this very thing.

If anyone else has a child who watches too much CBeebies please get them to do the same, or write to them yourself.

We need to think about an actual campaign; if Mumsnetters/the large numbers of people coming (back) to feminism as a result of having dcs, put their mind to it I am sure we can change it, at least wrt the BBC; commercial channels would be a harder but to crack but Milkshake is actually the one with all the good equal programmes anyway

See this article from the Indie the other week about it too.

ToughOldBird - on CBeebies:

DirtGirlWorld
Come Outside
EverythingsRosie
Me Too
Mama Mirabelle
MightyMites
Penelope
PenelopeKByTheWay
PinkyDinkyDoo
SameSmile

that is not nearly as many as there are programmes with male protagonists....

l am heartened to find there are more female lead progs around than I realised, I think it's probably partly cos DD prefers a constant diet of Rastamouse, Handy Manny, Octonauts and Imagination Movers that I have been getting indignant.

Having said that, definitely agree with getting DD to compose a letter on the subject. And if I bribe her with taking it into school for Show and Tell it will no doubt be a wondrous epistle.

if she does write, please let me know as dd would love to think another little girl was doing it too

SSM I'm interested in the idea of a campaign - how do we get MN to back us?

do you know, I don't think we want an official MN campaign necessarily; I think this is something where we can use MN but for it to work the impetus needs to be seen to come from kids.

a lot of MN campaigns involve getting the ear of politicians and people in power but I think an obvious grassroots campaign with a lot of individuals taking action would work better; I can see the BBC getting quite arsey about 'well we don't have to do what Mumsnet tells us!'
I think we should get local feminist groups on board because each one will have mums who will passionately want to get behind it.
UK Feminista might be handy.
I also want to contact the journo who wrote that article in the indy. He must have contacts.

(I do have a secret fantasy about a demo, it would be very media-friendly would it not? )

wdyt?

I think maybe the thing is, because the BBC is a public body with its public service duty so clearly expressed, it's harder for them to ignore a lot of complaints than it is for other bodies IYSWIM?

but I might be imagining this.

I think a counter argument ready for all those who will comment (as they did on the article) that there are simply loads of female leads, would be useful. A simple percentage of female leads in a typical CBeebies day would be a start, will work through that with DD for her letter.

Agree grass roots campaign best place to start - not sure there'd be enough support for an official MN one, but would be happy to be proved wrong.

OK so how do we get started? Dd is very fetching - I can see her in a UK Feminista babygro n banner now....

There is a 'Grown-Ups message board' on CBeebies website. Once DD has composed her letter I will consider posting contents there.

first we need aims.

'More girls on CBeebies' is what dd is after.

I say we want:

1. equal numerical representation in:

-presenters -main characters, particularly the main one who the programme is named after -minor characters

1. a preponderance of non-stereotypical representations (so they can have the odd Upsy Daisy type but not too many please); equal representation of women as authority figures (eg Zingzillas is mixed but DJ Loose is in charge of them all)

We are not trying to ban Bob The Builder (we will inevitably get accused of this), a few stereotypical boy ones are fine, but we want balance.

now, I'm sure people in the biz would say 'ha ha, don't be ridiculous, are we meant to be obsessed with counting boys and girls rather than looking for quality?' so these very strict numerical things I am suggesting might need finessing a bit....

I think I would like the BBC to tell me what criteria they use when commissioning a new childrens' programme and whether those criteria contain anything to mitigate the current female imbalance and stereotyping. Now...I wonder if DD can spell all that?