Women arrested for wearing burqas in France... what do you think?

[steamedtreaclesponge]

Here

I'm not really sure what I think about all this. On the one hand the veil is used as a tool of oppression in many countries, and I'm generally against it on the grounds that if men can't control their lust at seeing women's faces, they should stay inside, rather than making women cover up.

But then, it doesn't sit right with me that women who wear it out of choice are being arrested. Or is it comparable to the choice to become a stripper, in that it may be an OK and not-so-harmful choice to make for the person doing it, but is something that harms other women by encouraging anti-feminist or mysogynistic attitudes?

I'd welcome some more informed views on this...

Years ago, in the 1970's it was rare to see a woman with even her head covered in Cairo. Now it is the norm for head and sometimes the full burka thing. I don't know why this has changed in such a short time if this was a choice.

'can they ban tracksuits worn when not doing sports please? It offends me. And is not very french and chic.'

I doubt it, because they don't cover the face. They don't ban the long robes that some Muslim men wear, even though they are not part of our culture. It is the covering of the face that they are against. They feel it is important enough for social reasons to make a law about it.

I think it restricts women from all kinds oif work. You can cover your head and no one will give you a second glance. You can work in all professions. You can live a full life.

Cover your face and how the hell do you work? Or is that not an option for women who cover their faces? DO you think they go out with friends in the evening with their faces coivered? Perhaps go for coffee and cake? How do you socialise with women outside your religion or culture (or husband's family?) I truly do not know.

Would parents here be happy with a teacher in a burqa teaching their children?
Would your children find it difficult to learn if they can't see the teacher's face?
My TA is male, as are several of my colleagues, so I'd not uncover in class presumably. And not uncover to talk to fathers.

computermouse Bet that was a rip-roaring party you attended with your burka-clad friends. LOL!

No computermouse it's not the same. The point is you canniot see the person's face whioch I think is kinda crucial for teaching.

I don't care about the black, gay, whatever thing because colour or sexual orientation doesn't affect competency one iota.

Well of course they wear gorgeous stuff underneath! Because they're forced to wear a burka all day. Did you think they wore bridget jones knickers?

Goblin, I would not be happy with the niqab at school- having taught girls wearing it, I found it very difficult.

Yet I think banning it is too big a leap. The state should not be dictating what people wear any more than a husband or father should.

The point is the kids are NOT BLIND! And they need to build a relationship, see the teachers facial expressions, engage with them. I would not be happy. I would not be happy with my daughters seeing someone who is a role model covering herself up because a man told her to. If they asked her why, what would/could she say? If she had to see a male pupil alone after school what would she do?

I was curious computermouse, not being negative.
It would be interesting to try for a term and see what the effect was and how the teaching and learning altered as a consequence.

One of the problems they had at my DD's school was girls with niqabs and ipods concealed under them. very hard to detect if they are listening to Physics or Lady Gaga.

Women should not be teaching with their faces covered. It is very intimidating and should not be inflicted on our DC.

Computermouse;

Do you swallow the Guardian everyday or just once a week?
Your arguments are so painfully bad I'm cringing for you.

Thank you Goblinchild for making my point about shoplifting.

Inmydreamimawesternhero

What on earth are you woffing about G?
I haven't mentioned shoplifting.

It has been made illegal to cover your face in public places. This includes motorcycle helmets, etc. (I am not saying that the law is not actually aimed at women wearing the burkha, but it extends to anyone who covers their face.) Very large sunglasses probably wouldn't count, as they do not fully mask your identity (unless they are really huge, I suppose) but a mask would. Though one difference is probably that if a police officer asked you to shift sunglasses/a mask so he/she could identify you, that would be easy to do, compared with removing a burkha...

Ostentatious religious symbols are also outlawed in public buildings, including large crosses (obv you have to define ostentatious, large, etc...). France is a secular country and state and church are separate.

The demonstrators were arrested on charges of unlawful demonstrating.

Police unions have said it will be very hard to enforce. And they have other quotas to fill to please Sarkozy bigger fish to fry.

Many people are asking whether rich Saudi royals coming to the Champs Elysées to spend their dosh on luxury French products will be arrested. One police official I heard on the radio tonight said that in the time it takes them to glide from their chauffeur-driven car into the shop, where they'll be seen in a discreet side room anyway, there's little chance of the police swooping.

Goblin, I am trying to ignore. I think the thread is about to go down the pan and it's a shame, because the debate was interesting.