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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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junior doctors ...

86 replies

eldritch · 18/03/2011 08:44

My first post in this area so please be gentle! Grin

Last night I was watching a fly on the wall documentary about a group of junior doctors starting out on their first jobs. One of them is female, 24, blonde, attractive, likes to wear pink shoes, has a pink stethoscope etc. On her first day on the ward someone changes her name on the spreadsheet to "Barbie" and colours it pink. The next day she finds someone has drawn on her staff photo on a noticeboard, giving her a crown, silly hairstyle etc. She is clearly gutted but tries to laugh it off. The prevailing attitude from the other doctors (mostly male, but some female) is that she should just suck it up. She does.

I was Angry and Sad that she was treated like this as she was clearly good at her job and had worked really hard to get this far. In my workplace (public sector, but not hospital) this kind of thing would be seen as sexist bullying and taken very seriously, but it seemed to be pretty normal there. For me the most disturbing thing was that her supervisor seemed to be the ringleader in all this.

I wondered if they might have edited it a bit to make it look more dramatic than it was (the whole episode was about identity), but the reactions did seem pretty real to me.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this as it's still preoccupying me this morning! Is this just banter, and do women have to put up with this in some professions? I really thought this kind of macho doctor culture had died out but clearly not ...

OP posts:
AmandaCooper · 18/03/2011 08:55

I guess you have to look at what the culture is like generally, it's not necessarily sexism to say blonde + pink=barbie. Perhaps a male doctor could have a similar style/nickname experience.

Her colleagues' advice to suck it up is probably practical. I think the supervisor should put a stop to it though, it easily could be sexism or spill over into sexism.

What do other people think?

karmakameleon · 18/03/2011 09:04

I think whether it's sexist or not is neither here nor there. It sounds like it's bullying and if you can tell that she doesn't like it as a TV viewer, those that work there, know her and also saw what happened should be able to pick up on it too.

I run a team of 20 odd people and if any of them were acting like this I'd be horrified. From the management courses I've been on, I understand that I'm obliged to act in law. Really there is no excuse for this sort of thing.

Restrainedrabbit · 18/03/2011 09:08

I saw the episode in question and thought it was sexist bullying, she was clearly struggling to be taken seriously and quite rightly she said that she shouldn't be judged on what she wears or looks like. I was horrified at the response of her colleagues particularly her (male) supervisor. She, to me, looked genuinely upset.

MummyBerryJuice · 18/03/2011 10:08

It is sexist bullying and unacceptable, sadly it is not at all unusual in the medical profession (which although women are well represented, particularly in the lower rungs of the ladder) has a deeply misogynistic culture. As a woman, particularly if you are attractive you are expected to put up with a whole bunch of discrimination and often with sexual harassment too and just 'laugh it off' or 'take it like a man'.

It is one of the things I really do not miss about that life

3littlefrogs · 18/03/2011 10:13

I did feel sorry for her. I have worked in the NHS for over 30 years, and it is still a bit of a macho culture, though nowhere near as bad as it used to be.

However...if I were the junior doctor in question, I wouldn't dress in lots of pink and I certainly wouldn't purchase a pink stethoscope. I know it is her right to wear and use what she wants - but I do think the pink stethoscope is a bit OTT.

MrsDrOwenHunt · 18/03/2011 10:15

really? she needed to woman up a bit to be fair!!

Restrainedrabbit · 18/03/2011 10:17

Errr woman up??!!!

Deliainthemaking · 18/03/2011 10:18

Is she ther one who looked about 16? I saw a bit wherwe the family wasn't very polite to her regarding a decision, bless her felt for her

3littlefrogs · 18/03/2011 10:19

Families can be rude and abusive to nurses and doctors, seniors and juniors alike. She will come across plenty of that - it is par for the course.

karmakameleon · 18/03/2011 10:41

I know that it won't work like this in the medical profession, but surely if patients are rude or abusive, they should be told in a polite but firm way that they are behaving unacceptably and if they do not stop they will asked to leave.

If other staff members are behaving in a bullying or abusive way, first you explain to them why it's unacceptable, next you give them a written warning and if it still doesn't stop you sack them.

I work in a male dominated and sexist environment btw (Finance) so I don't think I'm being naive here. I've worked for employers that don't act (and the working atmosphere was horrific) and ones that do, and I know where I'd rather be. Now that I have my own team, I just wouldn't accept this type of behaviour and think other people are mad if they do.

Incidentally, I wish that she felt that she could sue and understood that she has a very good case given that it's all on film. It just goes to show how little people on the receiving end feel that they can do about these things and how willing people in authority are willing to let these things go.

AyeRobot · 18/03/2011 10:55

I wrote about this on the Feminism Chat thread and feel the same as you, OP.

I can't believe that people on this thread are trying to say that it's part of the job. How defeatist! The problem does not lie with her, it lies with those who who perpetuate sexism, whether by deed or acquiescence.

Ealingkate · 18/03/2011 11:32

I saw it too and on reflection I wondered whether they (her peers/supervisors) were trying to put across the message that she needs to take on a more doctorly(adult) persona to gain the trust and confidence of her patients. (Albeit in a crap way)

She was a 2nd year and maybe they thought that she should have got the message that if you want to be taken seriously by the patients then perhaps you have to be Dr Batchelor when you're advising people on life or death illnesses, not Suzi with a pink hair bobble and pink glittery trainers.

karmakameleon · 18/03/2011 11:49

Sorry Kate, I didn't see it so I have to ask, was the supervisor a bit thick, socially incompetent or totally lacking in empathy?

It just seems that you'd have to be to get to a certain age and not understand that there is a way to give negative feedback sensitively rather than by undermining someone and bullying them.

If the supervisor really doesn't understand this, then I wouldn't want to be one of his patients being told that my illness might be serious or even fatal. It doesn't seem that he'd be able to handle telling someone something like that in a kind and caring way.

Given the choice, in that situation, I'd probably go with the one in the pink trainers with the pink stethoscope rather than the one who is traditionally dressed but totally inconsiderate of people's feelings.

Ealingkate · 18/03/2011 11:59

Her supervisor seemed like a nice guy.
She had an incident where a patient was questioning her judgement on the diagnosis and treatment and she felt that it might have had something to do with her appearance, as she had also been mistaken for a nurse. She was also asking one of the other junior doctors about suggestions for being taken more seriously and they suggested introducing herself as Dr Batchelor rather than, "Hi. I'm Suzi".
I don't think that she has to be one (totally lacking in empathy) or the other(wearing pink trainers), my best mate is a doctor and she dresses in a feminine way but not a girly way.

meditrina · 18/03/2011 12:03

Ealingkate: I'm not going to flame you, I agree with you. If there were formal dress codes, then everyone would know where they stood. Instead there are subjective views on appropriateness, which vary both between individuals and in terms of impact on groups.

Dressing in a way which enhances your effectiveness in role is in itself a skill. Obviously your attire does not change your knowledge and ability, but if part of your role is to inspire confidence then the impression given by your appearance is a factor.

Voddy · 18/03/2011 12:03

I didn't see it but surely if you want to be taken seriously you shouldn't infantilise yourself by using a pink stethescope Confused

TobyLerone · 18/03/2011 12:04

The only reason it irritated me was that it was clearly stolen from 'Scrubs'.

karmakameleon · 18/03/2011 12:04

Of course it doesn't have to be one or the other, just in this case it seems that it's either Suzi (who is dressed in pink) or one of her collegues (who apparently don't know how to act around other people). I'd take Suzi.

Also to make a polite suggestion about how you introduce yourself is quite different from the bullying that the OP describes.

meditrina · 18/03/2011 12:07

I didn't see the programme, but agree with OP that it would have been carefully edited to maximise any incidents.

Theonlyexception · 18/03/2011 12:08

Why is using a pink stethescope infantilising Voddy? It is just a colour. It isn't just for kids you know.

karmakameleon · 18/03/2011 12:10

meditrina, I've never seen a formal dress code that specified which colours you are allowed to wear, so I guess that in most places that have one, she wouldn't actually be wearing prohited items.

I also understand that the way you dress can change people's perceptions of you and as a manager I wouldn't hesitate to point that out if I thought that someone who worked for me was suffering for wearing inappropriate clothes. However, I'd do it privately, one on one and with some sensitivity rather than public bullying. I'm not sure why people think the latter is acceptable and aren't considering that the former should be applied.

karmakameleon · 18/03/2011 12:12

I'm not sure how it could be edited to "maximise" incidents. Either bullying occurred and was captured on film or it didn't.

(I can see how you can edit to "minimise" an incident by leaving half of it out. Does anyone think this might have happened?)

karmakameleon · 18/03/2011 12:21

Sorry, one more thing. Most workplaces have formal codes on bullying and harrassment, yet very few people know where they stand on this as evidenced by the situation here. The supervisor etc presumably have no idea that they are acting against the code and Suzi presumably has no idea that she can make a formal complaint and expect to have it acted on.

Why do you think it's more important to have and agree on dress codes rather than codes around negative behaviour?

Ealingkate · 18/03/2011 12:22

I didn't seem like bullying to me - but maybe that's the kind of banter I'm used to.

If you were at work and dressed in a way that meant people didn't take you seriously - but you did adhere to the official dress code (i.e. Hello Kitty handbag, ribbons in your hair - whilst wearing a suit) then a bit of gentle ribbing might make you reconsider?? No??

Voddy · 18/03/2011 12:23

Well theonlythe thing is, pink is pretty much seen as a 'girly princess' colour now. Little girls wear pink, professional adult women generally don't wear pink to work.

I'm not saying she deseved to be bullied, by the way. It's wrong that our appearance is generally the primary thing we are judged upon. But the fact of the matter is that if you put an emphasis on 'girlishness' by using a pink stethescope and wearing pink shoes, then you will be treated like a girl, rather than a professional woman.

Also (and I'm probably not articulating this very well) the stethescope is the thing that most obviously would signify she is a doctor to a patient; by using a pink one she is drawing attention to her femininity and 'softness' in a way that I think is odd, if you don't want to be treated any differently to the other doctors.

So yes, pink is just a colour but it's almost solely seen a a girly colour now and I don't think it looks very professional.