junior doctors ...

[eldritch]

My first post in this area so please be gentle!

Last night I was watching a fly on the wall documentary about a group of junior doctors starting out on their first jobs. One of them is female, 24, blonde, attractive, likes to wear pink shoes, has a pink stethoscope etc. On her first day on the ward someone changes her name on the spreadsheet to "Barbie" and colours it pink. The next day she finds someone has drawn on her staff photo on a noticeboard, giving her a crown, silly hairstyle etc. She is clearly gutted but tries to laugh it off. The prevailing attitude from the other doctors (mostly male, but some female) is that she should just suck it up. She does.

I was and that she was treated like this as she was clearly good at her job and had worked really hard to get this far. In my workplace (public sector, but not hospital) this kind of thing would be seen as sexist bullying and taken very seriously, but it seemed to be pretty normal there. For me the most disturbing thing was that her supervisor seemed to be the ringleader in all this.

I wondered if they might have edited it a bit to make it look more dramatic than it was (the whole episode was about identity), but the reactions did seem pretty real to me.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this as it's still preoccupying me this morning! Is this just banter, and do women have to put up with this in some professions? I really thought this kind of macho doctor culture had died out but clearly not ...

OK I watched this and I thought it was terrible. She was obviously upset about her name being changed to Barbie on the rota and they STILL went and doodled on her picture to make her look like a barbie doll or whatever it was. Why the hell shouldn't she wear a pink stethoscope? She dressed perfectly appropriately, hair tied back, no make up and she's a qualified doctor FGS! Or is it assumed that because she's clever she can't be concerned with her appearance? As obviously women can't be pretty AND clever!

However, with her patients, acknowledging that she does look quite young, why doesn't she call herself Suzanne? I wouldn't go for Dr Batchelor, as I don't think it makes a doctor seem approachable but Suzanne sounds more grown up than Suzi.

That's a draconian employment law and I am sick to the back teeth of bullying. That opens the door to passive-aggressive harassment and blackmail!

Her abilities as a doctor are not going to depend on the colour of her stethoscope, but surely if a patient feels she isn't as competent because of it, then she is not being the best doctor she can be, because her patient doesn't trust her.

If the doctor thinks the colour of her stethoscope more important than the mental comfort of her patient then perhaps she's in the wrong job.

Tbf gooseberrybushes, people rarely sue at all. The more likely scenario is that you approach a manager or HR and say something's been bothering you. If they can't be bothered to do anything about it, I don't really see why they think they should be able to get away with it.

Also the law accepts that the employer/manager may not be aware of something and can't act unless they are aware. I suspect that in this scenario, if it's clear to a TV audience that she was uncomfortable, it would have been clear to her supervisor. A tribunal would assume that her supervisor had at least the same amount of empathy as a TV audience and expect him to be aware regardless.

Please could you give me an example of how the law might encourage passive aggressive harasment or blackmail because I'm not sure I understand that bit.

Actually I've just read an article about employment law and tribunals. In England and Wales forty years ago there were C8500 workplace disputes dealt with at tribunal. Last year there were C236-thousand.

For a company to fight costs around ten thousand, and the average payout is around half that. So it makes sense for them to settle. Maybe that's why people rarely sue, or rather why the cases don't reach tribunal?

Yes, I can imagine a manipulative employee accusing a superior of bullying when the same behaviour would not normally be seen as bullying by most people. But if it all depends on how sensitive and upset the employee can get, surely Pandora's box is open?

Of all the dozens of cases of workplace bullying I've seen (and they were clear cases often involving tears or people being signed off sick) not one person has sued or threatened to sue. Only once has anyone even mentioned having official HR involvement. Quite a few were reported to managers and dealt with within the team. Most were ignored because people thought they just had to suck it up.

If I accused my boss of bullying me by say, saying he didn't like pink when I was wearing a pink top, I would have to

(a) demonstrate that I was upset
(b) show that my boss knew I was upset
(c) show that when my boss knew he did nothing about it.

So, in that scenario, my boss would have to apologise and not say it again. Hardly a big deal. The tribunal's not going to award me millions.

Well, fair enough.

ealingkate no am not suzi!! They were in Newcastle I think. In her defence she dealt very sensitively with Toilet Brush Man (anyone who saw that episode knows what I mean! )

I was telling my friend about toilet brush man - supposedly that is the standard excuse for strange object in orifice!!

Personally I reckon Suzi isnt girlie.....ist the other female Doctor who I really like a lot...Catherine is it ?, now she looks so so young...about 16yrs old.
She does sound and look girlie, but such a lovely person....
She is lucky though looking so wonderfully young.....long may it last.
As for Alex, his eyelashes curl.......sweet !
alex

Aye I didn't mean that it is part of the job and has to be accepted, just that it is a deeply misogynistic culture and that I found battling against it constantly very, very draining.

The culture is changing slowly but I often get the feeling that unlike many other careers it is still very much an 'old boys club' and most of the women are as complicit as the men in maintaining the status quo.

I suppose the Bar is very similar...

The sttitudes do need to be confronted but it can be very lonely and feel like a constant uphill battle.

Karmakameleon I agree with everything you've said. Workplace bullying is horrible and it's up to supervisors to tackle it head on. I'd also say there's an additional need where someone in a powerful group is attacking someone in a less powerful group as in racist, sexist or homophobic bullying which it sounds like in this situation.

Thank you unrulysun.! I do like to think I'm totally right on this

In terms of the dynamics, bullying (by definition) will always be by a more powerful person over a less powerful one. Sometimes power will be due to seniority, maybe personality or something else specific to the individuals involved. Sometimes power will be obtained by being a member of a dominant group. Are you saying you think that if the power is obtained through being part of the dominant group it should be treated differently?

(I'm not sure what I think here, but I do think that rasict, sexist and homophobic aspects can be harder to prove. I can think of one guy I worked with who would shout at the women in the office and over the phone at staff in our Indian offices. Was he a bully? Absolutely. Was he sexist and racist? Most likely. Was the bullying sexist or racist in nature? Nothing I heard was so personally I don't think you can treat him more harshly for being a sexist or racist, IYSWIM.)

Medicine is quite a mysogynistic profession.

I know a doctor who was bullied at work for taking time off for a pregnancy-induced illness.

not sure if its that misogynistic any more.... I know men who have been bullied for taking time off and women who have been bullied for taking time off.

Both men and women find the transition from student to doctor tricky. People ( patients and colleagues) do judge you to some extent on how you dress.... and that means you have to dress more conservatively whilst at work. I dont think you do yourself any favours by having a pink stethoscope if you are already concerned that people wont take you seriously.

Obviously I do think that they should have taken the piss especially when she is so new to the job..

bugger I meant " I DONT think"

what I'd like to know is this: what if a male nurse turned up with a blue stethoscope and blue trainers would he be considered less caring?? Would he be judged on his choice of attire?

I think research has shown that people do make first impressions, even when they think they don't. It's a thorny issue because views on appropriateness vary. If you are young, essentially still in training and in a post where it is important to inspire confidence in patients, then there is a lot to be said for presenting yourself so that the first impression reinforces competence - eye-catching non-standard equipment (for either sex) may not be helpful.

It is easier for men, as the "uniform" of the suit, with the permitted latitude in choice of tie, gives a readily understood code.

I simply wouldn't dream of going to work in anything other than conservative, sensible suits in dark colours. I don't wear jewellery or fashion shoes, I don't use a novelty pen, I project a professional image because it reassures my clients that they are dealing with someone who takes their problems seriously and can be trusted to deal with the important affairs of their businesses. I think junior doctors of either sex should be respected by their colleagues but guided in an appropriate and professional way to dress appropriately for the very serious job they do. If I was seriously ill I would not wish to be treated by someone who looked like she thought a stethoscope was a fashion statement.

To me, turning up with a pink stethoscope for a female doctor is a bit akin to a male doctor turning up with a Ben10 stethoscope. It probably functions fine but looks like a toy! I like pink but wouldn't buy a pink ophthalmoscope even if they made them. When I was newly qualified, I looked very young for my age and some patients did question whether I was qualified so I did try to dress a bit older and a bit more conservatively.

Haven't see the show but do think the treatment of her sounds like bullying.

I really am at the number of people who think wearing pink to work is unprofessional or inappropriate.

The men at my work often wear a pink shirts in the office. Some wear colourful ties and fun cufflinks. I can assure you it's not holding them back.

Actually korma, pink clothes are fine IMO. A pink stethoscops would just look like a toy to me. I didn't even know they came in different colours!

Pink shirts or ties are absolutely fine, and fun cufflinks are also ok, they are part and parcel of conventional professional dress. Pink stethoscopes, however, are not part of conventional professional dress. It's not a gender issue, it's a cultural one.