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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Why is promoting the SAHM choice a feminist issue?

146 replies

HelenBaaBaaBlackSheep · 08/03/2011 21:49

This kept coming up in the other thread and I didn't want to drag it off topic so thought I could start it here. I'm genuinely interested as I don't see any connection.

To explain, feminism to me is about equality of treatment (e.g. same wage for same job), equality of opportunities, the rejection of a system in which women are property to be exchanged, shared or abused. But I don't get what it has to do with lifestyle choices like being a SAHM.

OP posts:
Omg20 · 12/03/2011 23:46

You would think though that if sahp is devalued in society then I would have more respect for the parent that went out and worked. I don't think sahp is devalued that is what I am saying I don't think it should be a feminist issue and I keep seeing people on here putting down sahp on this forum constantly and sahm being told that they are not feminists etc for doing it. So really the only one that is devaluing sahp is feminists that say that type of thing.

niceday · 12/03/2011 23:46

Some have the partners who can provide for them, others do not.
Should it be down to luck?
What is then the purpose of the society? That's just like life in the wild.
And I am not arguing for govt handouts as a simple solution. There are plenty of things that could be done, butall starts with first acknowledging there is an issue; and secondly treating sahps with respect - the same respect that full time workers get, nothing more.

Omg20 · 12/03/2011 23:47

As I said a good thing would be if they made child maintenance avoidance a criminal offence. Then you would see as many dead beat parents not supporting their children.

Omg20 · 12/03/2011 23:49

That is what I am saying I have never been shown any less respect and neither has my mum or any other person I know for being a sahp so why make it out to be an issue that actually doesn't exist. The only issue I can see is having children isn't leagally binding.

HerBeX · 12/03/2011 23:51

omg I find your arguments ridiculous.

Feminists talk about SAHPing being under valued because it fucking well is under valued.

We are practically the only group in society, who have consistently argued that caring for children is socially necesssary work and you feel that we are insulting you for doing that socially necessary work? The only group who demand respect and recognition for that work is insulting you is it?

What the hell have you been reading? It certainly hasn't been my posts, or any of most of the feminists on this board. It seems to me that you are so hostile to feminism, that you read arguments into posts that aren't there.

Either that or you are just pretending to consistently miss the point for a larf. It's really tiresome.

niceday · 12/03/2011 23:52

Just read your last post.
I think you are completely missing the point.
Feminists do not devalue sahps. The recognize sahps are being treated unfairly and try to correct it.
So then you do agree with feminists? :)

And I also agree that none of these issues should be feminists. And there should be no feminism at all! All should be equally fairly treated.
And while that's not the case and no one else puts it on the agenda, then feminists have to...

HerBeX · 12/03/2011 23:54

Right, so you don't think it should be discussed as a feminist issue omg.

But then, you don't think a lot of things which are feminist issues, should be recognised as feminist issues.

Because you're not a feminist.

But some of us here are, and we'll continue to discuss this from a feminist perspective.

Omg20 · 13/03/2011 00:00

I think you need to read my posts herbex I don't feel under valued so why do you feel that I am under valued? What you are asking for is that sahp be praised for bring up their own kids. Which I find very stupid indeed I would understand if you were talking about the issue of people not paying child maintenance but you aren't. You are saying that people put work above sahp which isn't what I have witnessed. Why do I need recognition for bringing up my own kids? Yes this is very funny to me indeed not. This is a serious issue with you telling me that people under value me when they clearly don't. I will not even entertain the fact that you are trying to call me a liar. I just think it is down right childish. The only thing I can see that needs changed is maintenance dodging being criminal.

niceday · 13/03/2011 00:03

Omg,
Are you planning to get back to work?

Will that be easy?

Omg20 · 13/03/2011 00:07

Getting back to work will not be easy but that is because of the economic down turn and the fact that there are very few jobs. If there was no down turn I could certainly get back to work no problem. I obviously would be making as much money as I would had I not had children but that is the sacrafice I made to have children. Which I did not have to have. It was my choice.

HerBeX · 13/03/2011 00:09

omg I don't care whether you feel undervalued or not. As I previously said, this discussion isn't all about you and what you feel. It's about how society as a whole values child rearing.

I am not aksing for SAHPs to be praised for bringing up their own kids, I'm arguing that that work should be equally valued as working in the cash economy.

Your experience as a SAHD, is completely different to the experience of a woman as a SAHM anyway. Men are treated differently from women. I suppose you're going to tell me next, that they're not adn we should stop discussing it because you don't think it's important, because you've never noticed being treated differntly, so all the data and research that's done on it is irrelevant. Hmm

Omg20 · 13/03/2011 00:13

What data I would like to see this research and data that says that sahp is under valued because I have never seen it. I didn't say it was about me you did. I said in my experience I have never seen it happen. To any sahp and I certainly didn't devalue it when I wasn't a parent nor have I seen anyone else.

niceday · 13/03/2011 00:14

Many sahps will struggle regardless of the downturn.
Their choice?
And the same logic can be applied to lots of other unrelated issues.
Like why should childless adults pay taxes to educate someone elses children; or pay taxes to treat smokers and drinkers.

HerBeX · 13/03/2011 00:19

The data which says women are poorer than men on average omg

Women who have been SAHMs are particularly much poorer, because their work of child raising hasn't been valued.

I'm sure I've posted that about twelfty hundred times now.

Omg20 · 13/03/2011 00:23

That isn't proof that it is because it is undervalued. It is however proof that there are sacrifices you have to make when you decide to bring kids into the world.

HerBeX · 13/03/2011 00:23

omg I've never seen Australia, but I know it's there.

On that note, I'm going to bed, I can't be sitting up having a pointless circular argument with you.

Good night.

Omg20 · 13/03/2011 00:24

That is why I said if you don't want to make sacrafices don't have them. The only thing I can see wrong atm is the fact that some parents can get away without paying maintenance for their children.

HerBeX · 13/03/2011 00:25

Yeah, that word sacrifice again.

Men aren't making the sacrifices are they. They don't end up poor as a result of bringing children into the world.

And when I say men I don't mean you. It's not all about you.

Am really off to bed this time.

Omg20 · 13/03/2011 00:31

Men and women both make these sacrifices. Even if they are working they obviously have to pay up for their children.

sakura · 13/03/2011 00:59

ROFLMAO, oh those poor men, being forced to pay for their own children.

Omg, you're not a good example for men. I can't imagine single mothers (any mothers?) begrudging spending money on their own children.

Omg20 · 13/03/2011 01:11

I honestly can't see what you mean sakura men and women should pay for their children whether they live with them or not. Are you seriously suggesting that all men will not and all mothers will? I highly doubt that. Ofc there are mothers that wont take responsibility for their children and ofc there are fathers that don't take responsibility for their children. I have a name for them but I think it would be to strong for this forum.

sakura · 13/03/2011 01:21

I was just surprised that you thought that a man paying for his own children was something that needed a pat on the back, but you won't be the first man to think like that.

tbh, this discussion is over your head.

Omg20 · 13/03/2011 01:26

What lol? I said the total opposite I said it was a sacrafice that had to be made and that they don't deserve praise for it.

sakura · 13/03/2011 01:28

no you didn't but you're backpeddling now. You said "obviously" even if they're working they have to pay for their children, which is a sacrifice

Omg20 · 13/03/2011 01:33

Read my posts lol I said that if you decide to have kids you have to make sacrafices. Whether that be earning less because you have to provide for children or earning less because you have to look after your children and I was talking about both genders. I also said in all my posts that I don't think sahp should be praised for bringing up their children or working ones be praised for providing for their children.