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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Men in a van

246 replies

alphamummy · 03/03/2011 22:01

I'm unsure why this bothered me so much, i'm not upset more annoyed that it happened.

Sorry i'll explain, i was walking on main road to playgroup 10am ish, with my 2 children in double buggy. I was dressed in jeans, winter coat and walking boots( not that it should matter at all what i had on). A van drove passed me pipped their horn and the driver shouted out of the window at me " fat split arse" and the bloke in the back also shouted "show us your fanny".

Why would you behave like that? I had my children with me.

I think its the fact that they pipped to get my attention to shout abuse at me.

OP posts:
SardineQueen · 10/03/2011 18:02

The fear of rape includes the fear of being put in hospital and the fear of death. It is a lovely additional extra.

I suppose it might be similar for a man to fear being abducted from the street and taken somewhere and tortured. Do most men walk around with that fear in the UK? I just don't think they do.

"Where I live you can be murdered just for strolling into the wrong area."

Of course that is terrible, and the other things you describe are terrible. I am sorry that they have happened to you. For women though the things aren't to do with the area they are in, they happen because they are women. Being a woman isn't something you can get away from IYSWIM.

SardineQueen · 10/03/2011 18:05

Some of the men who do this I'm sure are the type that you describe, yes I see that point and agree.

Others aren't though - the men who act alone - sit behind you on the bus whispering creepy stuff in your ear, masturbate at you on the tube, follow you home from school and so on and so on - they are acting from a different set of motivations (they are sexual predators) and although some I'm sure do it to boys, the vast majority of this behaviour seems to be aimed at girls and young women.

SardineQueen · 10/03/2011 18:06

Sounds like you have and have had a really tough time though omg, I am really sorry.

Omg20 · 10/03/2011 18:12

I believe most men do go around with the notion in their head that they might have to fight for their life. How can you say that you would walk around scared of being raped and murdered and be less scared of just being murdered and violently assaulted. This is my point you wouldn't you would be equally scared of both crimes happening to you if you had just been abused by a man or a group of men.

TheProvincialLady · 10/03/2011 18:19

Omg it sounds like you are trying to minimise womens' valid feelings and fears. Of course men have things to worry about too, but it is not in the same league. The place where you live sounds horrible and I am sorry you have experiences those terrible things. I bet the women who live in your area experience a hellish time too.

AyeRobot · 10/03/2011 18:19

Only got a second, but this might be a good time to introduce the concept of Shrodinger's Rapist

OMG, I am sorry you have to live with so much violence and the fear of it happening again. It's shit, isn't it? Do you think a man living in a comparable size city/town/village in England would face the same violence and fear as you do?

Omg20 · 10/03/2011 18:19

I have had a tough time and a lot of this happened before I was 18. People have actually asked me when I am planning to die. Considering I am married and have a step daughter and a daughter that is coming 4 this year and I am only 20. They ask this because I have more life experience than most 80 year olds and everything seems to be coming so quickly to me that people would never experience in their whole life.

SardineQueen · 10/03/2011 18:20

I really don't think so. A physical assault doesn't carry with it the same level of shame, humiliation, violation, and not being able to do anything to anything to correct it in terms of the law.

I have been physically assaulted and sexually assaulted (of course a sexual assault is a physical assault but YKWIM) and I would take a physical assault any day. If I had the choice of being stabbed or raped, for me it's a no-brainer which I would choose.

SardineQueen · 10/03/2011 18:21

Why do you think omg isn't in england?

TheProvincialLady · 10/03/2011 18:21

Me too SardineQueen.

The other thing to remember is that for men, it is scary on the streets where you live. For many, many women, it is also scary and dangerous in the home.

Omg20 · 10/03/2011 18:23

Ironically I don't think the women have it as bad in my country as they seem to in england. I am not trying to minimise womens fears. I was just trying to point out that I don't believe these men in thios van have done this because they hate women more that they are arseholes that like to feel hard so they pick on vulnerable people rather than women in general.

SardineQueen · 10/03/2011 18:25

Where do you live omg?

I imagined you were in England!

Omg20 · 10/03/2011 18:26

I live in the uk. I think I think I have said in previous topics where abouts I am in the uk.

HerBeX · 10/03/2011 18:27

Are you routinely afraid of being raped OMG?

That's the third time I've asked.

Because if you aren't, can you please explain how you know that the fear of rape and murder is the same as the fear of assault and murder?

Omg20 · 10/03/2011 18:27

Northern Ireland.

Omg20 · 10/03/2011 18:28

I have lived in england before though.

Omg20 · 10/03/2011 18:28

I already answered that question herbex in a previous post. Check it out.

chibi · 10/03/2011 18:30

chibi's axiom:

even where something clearly, obviously and in a fully documented way affects the majority of women negatively, there exists a single man somewhere who quite possibly has it worse, at least some of the time; the net effect is that it cancels out and renders invalid the experiences of those women

Omg20 · 10/03/2011 18:30

I don't need to have a fear of rape to know what it would be like. Just like women that fear rape may have never been raped but still know how to fear it and what it feels like.

AyeRobot · 10/03/2011 18:31

Sorry, OMG, for putting you on the spot like that about your location. I just remember you mentioning on another thread, maybe one of the Assange ones.

Omg20 · 10/03/2011 18:33

I don't think i would even like to engage you on that one chibi because I never once said that my experiences over ride the experiences of women. All I was trying to say is that these men that do this are just as likely to verbally abuse another man. That is my opinion I don't think they actually hate women.

HerBeX · 10/03/2011 18:37

No you haven't directly answerd that question OMG. You have merely said that your opinion is that the fear of rape is the same as the fear of any other violent assault. You can't possibly know that unless you habitually experience both.

chibi · 10/03/2011 18:37

regardless of who is more likely to suffer threats of sexual violence whilst walking about - never having been to NI it may be well be equal for men and women, I don't know - it would appear that most of the people that issue such threats are men

how can this be changed? or should it be assumed that it is par for the course, if you insist on walking around in public, you should expect men to shout obscenities and threaten you

HerBeX · 10/03/2011 18:37

Hence my question

Omg20 · 10/03/2011 18:47

"Did I say I was at all subjected to rape fear anytime? All I pointed out is that fear in both cases would be equal. How can you fear more about rape than losing your life or being put in hospital than you can with fear of rape or vice versa."

That is one place I answered your question herbex. Now answer mine. How can you fear one more than the other?