Men in a van

[alphamummy]

I'm unsure why this bothered me so much, i'm not upset more annoyed that it happened.

Sorry i'll explain, i was walking on main road to playgroup 10am ish, with my 2 children in double buggy. I was dressed in jeans, winter coat and walking boots( not that it should matter at all what i had on). A van drove passed me pipped their horn and the driver shouted out of the window at me " fat split arse" and the bloke in the back also shouted "show us your fanny".

Why would you behave like that? I had my children with me.

I think its the fact that they pipped to get my attention to shout abuse at me.

Because one is more likely

Sorry I didn't understand that as an answer, I thought it was a rhetorical question. I understand you mean no now.

Omg20 - I'm having trouble understanding your posts or your motivation.

Are you saying that:

a) men get shouted at / pestered as much as women do
b) arseholes who shout / pester don't hate women
c) arseholes who shout / pester are just as likely to choose a male target than a female target for their shouting / pestering

Because I just don't think any of these things are true.

There may be some arseholes who shout / pester at men, some of those same arseholes might hate men and women, but I think the point that needs to be made very, very clear is that your (very dreadful) experiences are out of the ordinary rather than being a depressingly common experience that most girls and women have to deal with on a very regular basis.

You say that "most men do go around with the notion in their head that they might have to fight for their life" - whilst I am sure that there are the odd moments in their lifetimes that this is true for most men, I don't think it is anywhere nearly as pervasive as the fear that women live with every day.

As an example, let's take walking home from the pub - most of my male acquaintances walk alone, stick on their iPod, take shortcuts etc. They don't even think about it. Because they don't have to.

Most of my female acquaintances try to arrange routes home with other people, or take a taxi. If they end up walking home alone, there is no iPod, no shortcuts - they walk home fast, along the best-lit route, on a state of high alert. What I'm trying to say here is that women live with this low-level risk-minimisation ALL THE FUCKING TIME. And we shouldn't have to. I should be able to walk home pissed and stark naked at 3am without fear of assault. Instead I am subject to harassment on the streets whilst sober, modestly dressed, and accompanied by children.

Without a doubt women will receive more abuse from passerbys than men unless they are an ethic minority in that case it happens regardless of their sex. However I have always had issue with people thinking men are safe on the streets the irony is men are 3 times more likely to be attacked than a woman however statistics have shown women are 2 to 3 times more likely to actually worry about it. (don't want to turn it into 'what about the menz' just making a point)

I really don't like the behaviour but the problem is what can you do, you can't respond as they are driving past so any response will be on deaf ears. It makes you feel awkward and a little bit strange some may be threatened by it also. It's a very specific type of guy that shouts out abuse from cars as well.

Saltatrix, that's because men are 2 to 3 times more likely to actually be on the streets to begin with. I suspect that their rate of being attacked, is proportionate to tehir public presence IYSWIM

That's a v good point grumpla. I go running and am very careful about routes I take. Even in the middle of the day, I won't run around a field on my own that I would run round if I was with someone else, I won't take an alley way which leads to a certain route, I'll be v. careful about ensuring that the ipod isn't blocking out sound etc.

In my car, if I'm in a town and I stop at lights, I'll check the locks.

It's that constant wariness that is a normal part of life for women.

I realise that you may be constantly wary where you live as well OMG but I think you'll agree that where you live, is v. different to most of the uk

Interested in your experience Saltatrix, do you get shouted at by men in vans?

And what sort of specific type of guy is it IYO?

salt do you have a link to the stats about attacks? No worries if not I can look.

I see that quoted often and I wonder what the questions are.

If for eg the question is "have you been in a fight" then yes men will be more likely to say yes while if they say "have you been felt up against your wishes (ie sexually assaulted) then most women will answer in the affirmative.

Is it this?

Well I am black so I have been shouted at a couple of times most recent was last week. Best response I find is casual yawn really annoys them as you are showing that not only did it not affect you but you just find them tedious not even worthy of a response other than one of boredom.

As to men be victims its a bit more complicated then simply being in the streets in numbers.

Or this which is a bit more recent?

Trying to find what I am looking for

What I am getting as is, are the "minor" sexual assaults that women experience included in the "men are more likely to be attacked" stats IYSWIM.

It's a bit apples and oranges isn't it really.

Someone grabbing your breast when you're walking down the street versus someone "starting" at closing time.

Most of the male/male violence I've witnessed has been at closing time, our high street had 5 pubs in close proximity that chucked out at the same time and there were always punch ups.

It's a different dynamic to the whole minding your own business and a random tries to stick a finger inside you IYSWIM.

oh i bet they're not;

most women simply forget most of the sexual assaults to which they're subjected, they're jsut so normal.

In your case Saltatrix I'm guessing the type of guy who shouts out of vans at you is the common-or-garden-racist type. But do you think they are the same as the type who shout of the car at women? Because I'm not sure, is a bunch of sniggering white boy-racers as racist as they are sexist? I suspect that there's a lot of crossover between the type who are motivated enough to yell abuse at individuals, but I wonder if they're the same.

Yes sardine I'm sure i read somewhere that a large percentage of assaults on men involve alcohol and throwing out time.

Well that is one source although the Home office also provides reliable data.

SQ most things like rape are normally perpetrated by people known to the victim (the same with paedophilla), the stranger in the dark occurrence is not as common. And sexual assault is included as that is considered a violent attack. Women are overwhelmingly victims of offences in the sexual nature it's just that in all other types of violent crime (assault, GBH, murder) men make a very large proportion in numbers that accumulatively put them higher risk of violence than women. Both assaults and sexual assaults have a low report rate as well.

This only relates to violence on streets or stranger violence. Domestic violence is a different matter women experience that more.

Yes that's all true salt.

Rape is certainly more likely to be perpetrated by someone known to the victim.

However the "low level" stuff just happens all the time, everywhere, and I wonder if it is reflected in these stats.

For instance I was in the pub once and a man walked up to me and put his hands on my jaw quite hard somehow so that my mouth opened and I couldn't close it. Then he stuck his tongue in my mouth and snogged me. Then he walked off.

I have been standing around and had a man come up and grab my breasts, try to put his hand between my legs etc etc more times than I can even remember.

That is the sort of thing that happens to women a lot, that means they never forget their "place", that there is an underlying threat there all the time. What I am getting at, is would these sort of incidents be picked up in these surveys? They aren't violent. And they are the sort of thing that women don't think to mention as they have been taught to brush them off/laugh/forget about them. Women only think to mention them if they are specifically asked - I just wonder if the questions would pick it all up.

that small sexual assaults thread was very telling. All those things that women had never mentioned to anyone before. I am sure a lot of those wouldn't have been picked up by a survey.

Have given up looking! Am a bit tired.

I would be really interested in seeing the questions that lead to these stats, what is counted and what isn't etc.

Yes small sexual assaults may not be picked up by a survey although as I said often sexual assaults and general assaults are not really reported that much you will be quite surprised at a lot of the violence men (young men in particular) experience and do not report either.

But I really don't want to keep this topic of track or be accused of derailing :). Personally I think many of these issues by that I mean perceptions and actions towards women socially are improving with each generation. It's difficult to get a sudden dramatic change in views that is just not going to happen. However things are constantly improving there will probably always be people who do such things no matter how great a society you cannot account for the actions of individuals.

I hope we can get close to a society truly based on equal opportunities and equal outcome although realistically no utopia will ever happen we are only humans after all. I am sorry for what happened to you SQ btw.

Nice post salt I hope we can get there in the end too