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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Men in a van

246 replies

alphamummy · 03/03/2011 22:01

I'm unsure why this bothered me so much, i'm not upset more annoyed that it happened.

Sorry i'll explain, i was walking on main road to playgroup 10am ish, with my 2 children in double buggy. I was dressed in jeans, winter coat and walking boots( not that it should matter at all what i had on). A van drove passed me pipped their horn and the driver shouted out of the window at me " fat split arse" and the bloke in the back also shouted "show us your fanny".

Why would you behave like that? I had my children with me.

I think its the fact that they pipped to get my attention to shout abuse at me.

OP posts:
HerBeX · 04/03/2011 15:10

They are woman haters, of course they are.

Why else would they shout hate-speech at a woman?

Do we think that people who shout racist hate - speech at black people, aren't racist?

HerBeX · 04/03/2011 15:11

We need to stop being in denial about the appalling level of mysogyny there is out there.

Some men really, really hate us. It's not nice to contemplate, but forewarned is forearmed.

SardineQueen · 04/03/2011 15:24

alphamummy that's awful, what fucking wankers.

Don't know what else to say really Sad

BooyFuckingHoo · 04/03/2011 16:16

i agree with HerBeX. there are men who hate women and to them that is how it should be, they dont see that it is wrong. they have been raised with this sense of male superiority and entitlement to abuse what they perceive as this superiority,

Unrulysun · 04/03/2011 16:25

I think it goes beyond superiority into really unpleasant violent sexual territory. :( I can imagine men like this going home, being really unpleasant to their wives and then locking themselves away somewhere with truly deviant porn.

SardineQueen · 04/03/2011 17:04

I see it differently somehow. I don't think they hate women because that indicates some level of, erm, equalness? Understanding? You have to know someone to hate them, you have to see them as a threat or something. Not sure how I'm putting this.

Like I don't like spiders but I don't bother to hate them, because they're just spiders, they don't matter.

Like people who pull the legs off spiders do it because they're interested, to see how they will react, it's funny to watch it squirm. But the spider doesn't matter at all, if it is in pain that is just sort of totally irrelevant because they are so lowly.

I honestly think that a lot of this sort of behaviour comes from the same place. That group of men want to make a woman react, they find it funny. Whether that reaction is anger, or fear, or tears, or whatever, it doesn't matter. It's all funny. Which woman gets picked on is irrelevant, it's just whichever one happens to be there. And she doesn't matter at all, the whole point of it is the men's amusement, she doesn't really sort of count for anything, she's just a female for sport.

Sorry that's a ramble but I really think that's where a lot of this comes from. I think most of them don't even consider the effect it might have because they simply don't care.

HerBeX · 04/03/2011 17:11

Yes that makes sense.

I suppose it's not so much active hatred, just a dehumanised indifference.

But I'm not sure - I suspect that if she'd yelled back, the van had been stopped at a light, she'd gone over and told them they were all fat bastards, she had them on her i phone and would upload them to holler back or report them to the police, a level of bile would have come her way, which would have made the original comments pale into insignificance.

It's hatred in the sense that although on an individual level they're not important, to these men women as a group are a useful target to promote bonding with their mates. And if that target steps out of the box they've put her in and behaves differently to what they find acceptable, it's surprising how indiffernce can turn into the most savage fury.

BooyFuckingHoo · 04/03/2011 17:12

sardine the spider analogy is great, that has made it really clear for me. i totally see what you mean.

SardineQueen · 04/03/2011 17:17

Yes indifference. A sort of callous cruelty.

A lot of the low level sexual assault comes from there I think.

What happens to a spider having its legs pulled off if it turns around and bites its tormenter?

HecateQueenOfWitches · 04/03/2011 17:19

Sardine, you are totally right.

And that is worse than hating, isn't it?

That contempt. You're nothing. You don't matter. You're the ant under the magnifying glass.

SardineQueen · 04/03/2011 18:50

I mean I'm not saying that the men who do this would actually torture and kill someone (for the benefit of any MRAs lurking!). But the absolute indifference to the effect their actions have on the victim, its all fair game as long as they're amused, is the same sort of idea. The thing that it doesn't matter what the reaction is - they genuinely just don't care if it's anger or terror or tears - and the fact that the reaction is funny whatever it is (scaring the shit out of someone or really upsetting them is a right laugh) - shows that they don't actually see their victims as of any importance whatsoever.

SardineQueen · 04/03/2011 18:52

When these men are actually confronted with the real consequences of their actions - they get really affronted too. It genuinely hasn't occurred to them that they are doing anything wrong, the reaction when it is pointed out that what they are doing can do serious harm, is met with confusion and then denial and affrontery.

SardineQueen · 04/03/2011 18:55

And then of course you have a problem. If people hate in a BNP style or hold an anti-gay march then it's something to get your teeth into and fight.

If people simply don't care, then where do you even start?

The MRAs and a lot of other people as well think that women should simply shut up, accept their lot and get on with it. Where do we even start?

Sorry for multiple posts. And the gloom, having a bad day!

ForkfulOfTabouleh · 05/03/2011 08:16

OP - take a look at The UK Anti Street Harrassment Campaign.

Glamour · 05/03/2011 09:37

no i dont feel like i have missed the point i understand how awful that must have been for her and i would be just as upset to shout something like that when she was with her children is vile!

but all i was saying was that the wolf whistles and the ''alright love'' comment dosent bother me one little bit thats all.

and i also dont think that these men go home and speak to their wives like that at all!!

they were just showing off to each other and acting like idiots. i personally wouldnt read too much into it and star thinking that all these men hate women and have deep rooted problems they were just a bunch of dicks and theres not a lot you can do about it now really is there

SardineQueen · 05/03/2011 10:10

That's a rather defeatist attitude glamour.

You may not mind when men do this, but it starts for females in the UK from about age 12, it's just not OK. I don't want my girls to have obsceintites shouted at them when they're walking to school as I remember happening to me, I don't want them to be followed or flashed at or initimidated or worse.

Saying that women should shut up and put up with sexual harrassment isn't ever going to get us anywhere is it.

dittany · 05/03/2011 10:22

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Prolesworth · 05/03/2011 10:25

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StealthPolarBear · 05/03/2011 10:37

You'll forget this in a week or so, they will still be tossers. So you win,

ComeAlongPond · 05/03/2011 10:53

I hope you're okay, Alpha. A similar thing happened to me yesterday when I was walking through the supermarket carpark; two men in their early twenties rolled down their window and shouted, "HOT!" I ignored them, didn't even glance at them, and they were furious and starting screaming "OI we're talking to you! Don't fucking ignore us you whore!" and then shouted that I was a "stuck up bitch". I didn't respond at all, just kept walking, and they stopped their car by the doors and yelled, "When you walk past we're going to rape you!" The security guard at the door called out to me, "Don't worry about it love, it's just a bit of banter because you look lovely. Just take it as a compliment," and didn't do anything at all. How is 'we're going to rape you' a compliment? That sort of thing is so upsetting.

dittany · 05/03/2011 10:56

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GwendolineMaryLacey · 05/03/2011 11:17

I was driving along with DD in the car when she was 6 weeks old. I was not keen to break the speed limit to the degree that the bloke behind me wanted me to although my driving is on the fast side of normal, I wasn't pootling along. When we stopped at a roundabout the man, a suited and booted chap in a jag called me an ugly fat slapper.

DD is gone 3 now and those words still bring tears to my eyes. I hate that 3 years on he still has the power to do that to me.

SardineQueen · 05/03/2011 13:52

Is it legal to shout at women in the street that you want to see their fanny, or rape them, or call them a whore?

Comealongpond that is appalling.

gwendoline Sad I agree that you don't always forget this stuff. Most of it you forget, but some of it stays with you. It's not harmless IMO.

SardineQueen · 05/03/2011 14:06

Dittany thanks for the "chin up" post!

dittany · 05/03/2011 14:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.