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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Men in a van

246 replies

alphamummy · 03/03/2011 22:01

I'm unsure why this bothered me so much, i'm not upset more annoyed that it happened.

Sorry i'll explain, i was walking on main road to playgroup 10am ish, with my 2 children in double buggy. I was dressed in jeans, winter coat and walking boots( not that it should matter at all what i had on). A van drove passed me pipped their horn and the driver shouted out of the window at me " fat split arse" and the bloke in the back also shouted "show us your fanny".

Why would you behave like that? I had my children with me.

I think its the fact that they pipped to get my attention to shout abuse at me.

OP posts:
SardineQueen · 07/03/2011 19:49

alice it was over 20 years ago but yes we should have reported it.

I can't imagine any circs except really extreme ones where as a girl I would have even thought about reporting this stuff. And that's what they depend on, isn't it.

InmaculadaConcepcion · 07/03/2011 20:03

SeeJane, TheProvincialLady....god, I'm speechless. So disgusting. Angry

hogshead are you in the legal profession yourself? You're clearly very well informed about it. I've got another thread going

about what action to take on the woeful rate of rape convictions-to-reported rapes. Advice from someone with knowledge of the law would be useful. Thanks

ComeAlongPond · 07/03/2011 20:07

All this is so appalling.

I might go to the police station tomorrow and talk to them (policeman friend isn't local) and see if I have more luck there. Probably won't do much good but I feel like it ought to be reported all the same.

SardineQueen · 07/03/2011 20:09

comealongpond or you could call them on the non-emergency number Smile

SardineQueen · 07/03/2011 20:11

One thing though I guess the thing to say is "I was subjected to verbal abuse" or similar rather than (what I said when I was wanked at) "I suppose I'd better report this but it's fine really I'm fine and I'm only really telling you in case he does it again to someone younger or something or you know gets worse".

Confused

Even when reporting it I was minimising to the max, didn't want to be seen to be making a fuss.

This social conditioning is so powerful.

SeeJaneKick · 07/03/2011 20:11

I would have reported it but I didn't manage to get their reg number. They slowed down and sped off....it was gross as I had to walk home stinking.

At first I couldn't work out what it was...the smell was familiar....then it dawned on me...tbh I was just glad it wasn't chemicals or something really dangerous.

It's not worth gettinng upset about it though....you have to hope the lads grew up and had daughters...they were about 20 or so...I would have been around 23...what they did will haunt them for longer than it did me....if it doesn't then they're only half alive anyway and are to be pitied.

SardineQueen · 07/03/2011 20:11

minimising to the max Grin I know I said it but I like it!

Grumpla · 09/03/2011 14:43

Some of these stories are UNBELIEVABLE! It makes me so fucking angry.

I thought I would share with you though one of the best things that has ever happened to me.

I was walking down the road aged about 19,hand-in-hand with the five-year-old son of my friend. We were joking about, I was trying to 'convince' him that I was a witch.

We stopped to cross the road and a car full of teenage boys pulled up directly in front of us with the windows wound down and bellowed 'NICE TITS!' or somesuch witticism at me. They were literally inches from this little boy's face as they did so - he flinched horribly, really scared.

I was so infuriated by this - how DARE they terrify a child, let alone try and intimidate me - that as they pulled away I screamed at the top of my voice 'FUCK OFF!!!!!!'

Whoever was driving the car obviously got the shock of his life as he accelerated straight into a speed hump and the front bumper fell off his car.

I turned to my friend's son and said "See, I TOLD you I was a witch!" and we proceeded on our merry way.

Whenever I feel bad for not having the quick reactions / courage for shouting back, I always remember that one perfect moment as the bumper of the Renault Clio hit the tarmac.

HerBeX · 09/03/2011 16:42

LOL, Grumpa that's karma for you...

InmaculadaConcepcion · 09/03/2011 16:52
Grin
TheProvincialLady · 09/03/2011 17:49
Grin
SardineQueen · 10/03/2011 09:16

Someone will come on in a minute and tell you that by swearing in front of the child you were just as bad, and that it wasn't a ladylike thing to do, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Hmm

I just read your post and I know that if you posted that in AIBU you would get 60% of people saying that.

Personally I think your response was excellent. If you can't tell someone to fuck off when they're done something like that, when can you tell them to fuck off?

Women need to be free to REACT more, and appropriately. If these men thought they might get rounded on then a lot of them would think twice I reckon.

SardineQueen · 10/03/2011 09:19

We need to teach our girls to be gobby, I guess.

Problem is that means the end of civilisation as we know it, apparently. Our civilisation seemingly being based on men doing whatever they like, and women having to be "ladies" even when confronted with the most extreme provocation.

Bloke shouts something at you, and majority of people will say that you should ignore them (ladylike). When teh appropriate response is, naturally, to tell them to fuck off. If a woman does tell a man to fuck off, even if he has instigated it by shouting lewd comment, it's the women who is frequently seen as behaving badly.

MarshaBrady · 10/03/2011 09:23

When I was younger and the jibes more sexual (stuff like nice 'arse' bleurgh) and stuff, I found that getting angry was the least effective retaliation. And their response was so hideous, basically to laugh at my weakness, was worse than ignoring it. Now it's only very mild, like 'looking good' ha.

But I hated having to be aggressive back, I am not an aggressive person and found it too reactionary. Giving them too much power. again.

SardineQueen · 10/03/2011 09:39

I get that marsha, I really do. They can really turn on you if you react like that.

I was more just musing on Grumpla and how I know that loads of people would say that her reaction was terrible simply because women aren't supposed to behave like that. And that's not right, is it.

MarshaBrady · 10/03/2011 09:45

Oh yes fabulous the guy reacted and had bad luck and great it did provide a shock.

Sadly for me it was so pathetic and their laughing ugly faces made it worse!

jonicomelately · 10/03/2011 09:47

This doesn't surprise me. I really feel for all of the people who've suffered in this way.

This is NOT the answer but I would've really been tempted to raise my hand and then extend my little finger at them. Perhaps that would shut them up.

SardineQueen · 10/03/2011 09:53

My response was always ignore, look confused, try not to look scared (depending on the level of what they were doing).

Thing is there's nothing that you can actually do. You have no idea what sort of people they are. If you tell them to fuck off, they might be upset and drive into a speed hump, they might get out and punch you in the face. Ditto gestures. Ignore them and they might well just get worse. Burst into tears/look frightened and they might be pleased and laugh, they might get even worse. No response is the right one.

The answer is for men to stop bloody doing it.

MarshaBrady · 10/03/2011 09:55

Exactly SQ.

No response.

They should just stop doing it.

jonicomelately · 10/03/2011 09:57

You are right MB and SQ. However it's so tempting to do something back to them that sends them the signal that (a) Your words don't bother me (b) I can play that game too.

SardineQueen · 10/03/2011 10:02

Women need to be free to react as they see fit I guess is what I'm getting at, rather than be constrained by society not to react in ways that might come naturally to them.

On the subject generally, I think that a lot of people don't connect all of the incidents. So then they don't see it as a problem for women in general. Each incident is seen in isolation and that one bloke (or group of blokes) were awful and the implication is that the behaviour is aberrant. While in fact this is so terribly common that it does need to be seen as a feminist issue. I know most on this thread see that, I'm just thinking more in general. How women are encouraged not to "join the dots" when really they need to. I mean, just what has happened to me in one lifetime (to date) shows that there is more to this than just a few aberrant men, and i'm only one person.

MarshaBrady · 10/03/2011 10:07

The internet is good for that.

As I tended to felt a bit grubby and ashamed and would try and put the unpleasantness out of my mind rather than dwell on it. It meant I wouldn't talk about it much.

SardineQueen · 10/03/2011 10:24

Yes I think that women talking about their experiences on here - as much as it's upsetting - is really powerful and a lot of women on these boards have been helped by reading what has happened to other people and also sharing their experiences sometimes for the first time.

Omg20 · 10/03/2011 14:08

I don't think these men hate women at all. I think they are the same type of men that would shout abuse at men they perceived to be weaker than them. I used to be subject to this kind of abuse all the time until I got stronger and bigger and yes women do it to men aswell. I have had things shouted at me in the street in the town centre by women plenty of times usually when they are in a group.

SardineQueen · 10/03/2011 14:15

Did you really get lots of sexual threats shouted at you by groups of men when you walked around in your school uniform? I am surprised.