If men gave birth, would elective c-section be considered ok?

[tinierclanger]

And other birth/pregnancy/labour issues... Anyone want to discuss?

Lol it would be mandatory!

Oh and they would probably find a cure for morning sickness aswell.

I'm wondering how else they would deliver?

Have you been reading this thread or is it just a case of mumsnet hivemind at work? :o

Oh god, some of the opinions on that thread are just amazing. The internalisation of misogyny displayed is utterly terrifying.

I confess I was driven by that thread, rinabean!

How else would they get it out?

And paternity leave would be paid at double the wage-earner's rate and be for 5 years.

There was a thread the other day with people explaining why they found the feminism topic the most scary ( sorry can't quite remember the exact word used). For me' this thread is exactly the reason why, it's bad form to write a thread about a thread and I have to say I find this particular one a bit nasty and very very patronising to people who made very valid comments on the other thread.....comments you may disagree with granted but valid none the less. It is so bloody annoying that people call themselves feminists and then go out of their way to be bitchy! And if you are interested I would be just against men having an ec for no other reason than just wanting one.

It's a thread about a thread yes, but it is asking about a question looking for answers from a feminist perspective, I don't see the harm in that and that is no reason to not talk about it IMO.

I'm heartened by the feminist responses on that thread, though. Maybe that's why it's relatively quiet over here?

Steady on bulby! It's to get a particular perspective without highjacking the thread. And it's not about the thread, it's just related. There's nothing personal about it.

Many of us DO think it's ok, thanks very much!

Mrs I agree that looking for answers to the question (and it is a very interesting one) is fine. The reason I'm a bit annoyed is the whole 'some of the opinions are terrifying' these people and ' their internalized mysogynism' type responses which have then been repeated on this second thread. People had different opinions which have been shot down on a very patronising manner, to accuse people of being women haters( but the poor dears don't know it because their poor little female minds have been corupted so it's all internalised) is deeply insulting. My terrifying point was that women should not have the automatic right to ec because of monetary considerations. There is not enough money to treat people who are dying ffs (cuts on beds for cancer patients etc) it's bog all to do with a scary point of view.

Oh gee I am sorry for the rant, I'm usually a level headed person but I think a raw nerve has been rubbed.

Crikey and now I've highjacked this thread! Not having a good night am I!

Well, I thought, that if you paid, you could have an Elective Caesarean. On the NHS, there had to be a valid medical reason for one? And if it was a pregnant man, then I would hope he would be treated with the same respect I think a pregnant woman should receive. Ditto if there was a medical (OK apart from the obvious!) reason to perform a caesarean. And since when, and I am happy to be corrected, did being a femanist mean you had to hate men? Arn't we women equal to all and thus should treat everyone equally?

Since when did you get the idea that feminists hate men?

And yes we would like women to be equal.

I saw a little of the other thread. maturestudent makes a good point here that despite the ding dong which always happens with this topic, in the UK and on the NHS which is where the vast amount of births happen, they don't dish out sections on request.

So the OP on the other thread has been offered one because the NHS feels that it is appropriate to do so. So why the hoohah

Well this is the very first thread of yours I have read, and if you scroll up, there are some v derogatory comments, much like the cringeworthy stuff men say. ie cure for morning sickness etc.

I had thought feminism was a rather laudable thing where women are valued as equals and part of a sisterhood and where slagging off men, for the sake of it means we are as bad as they are, if they slag us off with off the cuff naff steriotypical comments. I remember the time when women were not treated equally (yes I am old). I love the fact, and envy it, that my girls have broad horizons that I never had and can be bold and brave and say what they feel without reproach because of their gender. It hasn't always been like that in the last 30 odd years.

I have to say though I don't really like the "what would it be like if the tables were turned hahaha they couldn't handle it" thing. I have no idea whether they could handle it or not.

Just going to ask DH if he would like to give birth naturally or have a CS, for an excellent poll of 1...

DH has pondered and says he would trust the doctors to say whatever was right at the time.

Which raises an interesting point actually. Women apparently are better at looking after themselves and knowing when something is wrong and going to the docs etc. Periods and stuff mean that we are pretty aware of our bodies and knowing what's going on. There is a strong movement towards natural childbirth which in my head is inseparably linked with whale music and visualisation and that sort of thing (not my cup of tea but whatever works for you etc). So if it were reversed, would the relationships with bodies be reversed? Or would men be very medicalised about it all and flatly say that there's no way they're doing breathing and zoning and all of that sort of thing?

Does any of that make sense?

How is this hating men? This is talking about the issue of different treatment of men and women, and speculating as to whether if something that relates solely to women, was something available to both men and women, would result in a different approach.

I remember the time women weren't treated equally too, doesn't involve being old, we're living it it.

aliceworld didn't start the thread

I don't think you'll find that everyone who posts will join in with the sentiments that you are (rightly IMO) objecting to.

Another point though - if men had the children, might everything not just be directly reversed? Is the struggle of women purely due to us being the ones who bear the children, or is the average difference in physical size important?

MatureUniStudent, I'm not sure I'm reading the same thread as you.

Where has anyone here said they hate men?

Are you reading what you think you are reading, or what is actually there?

The strength and size thing must be important surely?

Well speculation is rather pointless in my opinion, as men have never experienced pregnancy for the whole of our 200 thousand years of existence. So many things would be completely different that we cannot know what behaviours would be like. Especially since you are using mens behaviour now as a template.

If you ask a man now what would he do if pregnant of course he would do what the doctor advised him to do. He would have no comprehension nor have anyone to relate to as well as being pretty stunned and incredulous.