So is Christmas women's work then?

[Katisha]

Following on from my thread here in which in would appear that left to their own deives most, (not all), men would hardly bother with Christmas at all, I would be interested to know why this is.

Is it because women do it all for them? Is it because only women want all the traditional food, decorations, visiting, card sending and frenzy of present buying?

Are women propping up some ridiculous commercial christmas industry and men are right to despise/ignore it?

Or what?

I don't agree that Christmas is women's work tbh. Not in my expierence anyway.

DH saves up all year for it, he has bought the presents and organises the tree and expects the boys to be in to help decorate.
He has done the food shopping last night and starts to cook the meal not long after he has got up.
Then a couple of days after Christmas DH usually organises a few days away for us as a mini break.

My dad was (is)excatly the same and DH's dad was actively involved as well.

I see blokes at work running out in their lunch break sorting out Christmas presents and handing out Christmas cards (that they have signed)

I always find it hard to understand why women do drive themselves crazy with stress to do all the wifework (especially at Christmas, but the rest of the year too). in our house we have all these things divided 50:50 or if noone bothers it just doesn't happen.

But we have got quite fond of reworking the Christmas stories for a feminist household. Father Christmas here is rather subsidiary to the all-powerful Advent Fairy who rules December with a feminist hand. Sometimes assisted by her sidekick the gender-free Festive Nit. we don't bother with Mary-the-incubator.

It depends on what you decide is acceptable or not. My SIL (OH sister) goes into a complete frenzy of Christmassing that begins in November, does everything from trimming a huge house to numerous banquets throughout the season and into New Year. Her DH funds everything. It suits them, very gender-determined.
It's the whinging and whining from adult females that pisses me off, FGS if you don't like it, change what's happening.

Agree entirely. I was just pointing out the proper meaning of the phrase.

Although perhaps it's truer to say that Mary's role is acknowledged, rather than being completely ignored. And it is after all the birth of Jesus that is celebrated (all Mary's own work), rather than his supposedly miraculous conception (God's work).

Don't do it if you don't want to do it.

I genuinely don't understand - ie I deliberately don't sympathise with - the posts from women about how they 'have to' do everything at Christmas, cook the food, buy all the presents, send all the cards and so on...

They - we - don't have to. I do fully realise that many women operate in a context where that expectation is so heavily laid upon them that it is effectively impossible to refuse. But we don't have to send presents to someone else's family (cue, every time I point this out, the sanctimonious assertions that 'my DH's family is my family', yadda yadda yadda). Or cook a bloody great meal of roastitude. Or send cards. Or any of it. It's a complete sham, this pressure on women to do all this utterly pointless and exhausting festivity.

It makes me very cross.

Added to by Kirstie and Phil, Nigella, Delia, Jamie, Rick et al, all demonstrating the media norm of a perfect Christmas. M&S ads etc. And all the bloody countdowns in magazines and newspapers.

So generally speaking men don't fall for it all/ignore it/assume it doesn't apply to them apart from the bits they like.

I agree that Christmas is women's work because cooking, shopping, housekeeping, entertaining, keeping everyone happy etc is women's work all year round, there's just a lot more of it to do at Christmas!

And I agree that women need to start rejecting the pressure and expectations that we 'have to' do all these pointless things despite not wanting to do them and finding that they make us exhausted and unhappy - BUT I think we need to assert ourselves all year round as well. It must be hard to convince yourself that you don't have to cook a big roast Christmas dinner, buy cards and presents for all the in-laws etc while still believing that you 'have to' cook a roast every Sunday and remember all your DH's family's birthdays and so on.

Also there's so much guilt relating to children at Christmas, to hear some people talk you'd think it was akin to child abuse to not give your child a suitably 'magical' Christmas , even when they're too young to know or care that it's even happening.

couldn't care less this year. OH is great at cooking and fired up by all the macho cheffing thats been on tv lately. got a big baby due in jan and so no alcohol and GD means no chocolate and minimal carbs. i'm waiting til i drop and then having my own private xmas!

If full credit was given to Mary for giving birth to jesus then she'd be called his creator and she'd be worshipped.

There are people around who do some of that. They say, "Hail Mary, Full of Grace, The Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus." In spite of that, it doesn't seem to make them respect women more. Maybe they use up all the respect they have on just one.

only womens work of you daft enough to be martyr. we share as a family and dp does a considerable amount of driving and collecting our respective family

DH gets the job of looking after the kids all day while I drink coffee in Starbucks do all the Very Important Christmas work
Nah, I like it, I do. I've got a creative streak, and if you enjoy cooking/baking then when else can you indulge your greatest food fantasies than at Christmas.
DH wouldn't notice if Christmas didn't happen [Xmas not in his culture] but I do get pleasure out of creating a magical time for the family

That said, I think I've got something called "demand resistance", which means that when you're expected or obligated to do something you resist it by procrastinating and end up not doing it or resenting it. Alternatively, if you've got no pressure and are doing something for the hell of it, then it's fun. I'm not under any pressure because of the Christmas-less culture I live in, and perhaps that's why I enjoy it all so much

Never cooked a Sunday roast in all the years I've been married though

Oh, drinking coffee in Starbucks is in the lead up to Christmas, not actually on Xmas day...

for as long as martyr women do it all threads like this exist.stop fuckin skivvying,stirring gravy and feeling put upon then.

list tasks to be done
allocate tasks
doesn't get done?neither does xmas

this isnt a male and bastard man made xmas thang. just to get wimmin.just because.oh and baby in manger is a boy,haha

its a dont be a fuckin tit thang.get off your knees.get that raggedy cross off yer back.ansd stop being a widdle me me martyr

agreed, but I'm just making a different point, really.
Christmas doesn't have to be perfunctory in the name of equality. People are different, some people actually like "doing Christmas" -just look at the Poncey Christmas thread- riddled with people have found their spiritual home

But if you're complaining that you're being put upon, if you're stressed, if you feel under pressure, then that's not the same thing as "creative outlet" , absolutely

My DD loves Christmas. She loves decorating the Christmas tree, choosing and wrapping presents, writing labels, helping cook etc. Why? Because she adores the creativity of it all. I'm not going to force her to do all those things, after all. And she also loves Christmas because she gets to see all her family (grandparents, parents, aunt/uncle, cousins) together, for the only time in the year, and she is just so happy to see all these people she loves and who love her so much.

I think love and creativity are what Christmas is about, and I'm very happy to do a lot of the legwork and make a lovely party for all my family. My DP is (a) Jewish (b) hard at work (c) not remotely creative so he isn't very interested. But he doesn't mind me spending an awful lot of money on it, so I'm not complaining that he doesn't do much except load the dishwasher

My DH doesn't have a creative bone in his body. They stamp it out in Japan at a very early age

In France too, if you just go to a standard state school. If you want creativity/music/dance/art etc you must do those things outside school and pay for them. They are readily available, however.

I loathe Christmas cards, unless they are fabulous pictures of people's children looking very beautiful.

When it comes to Christmas , or the Royal Family, I lose half my brain and don'T recognize myself...

The Japanese New Year's cards are all of fabulous pictures of people's children

god is genderless

and mary is revered in the catholic church and islam i believe?

anyway....tomorrow

dh will be vaccuming the living room and dining room

moving round furniture

fixing computers

helping ds (aged 17 ...thats another thread) to tidy his room.

i shall be preparing cooking

cleaning hob, wiping down cupboards and doing copius amounts of washing

Coming to this thread a little late :o.

Am with the in laws this year for Christmas. On Christmas Day, MIL has done the cooking whilst SIL has made starter/pudding. The three of us do the carving and dishing up, whilst the men sit at the table chatting and waiting, although to be fair, FIL does serve drinks .

I do feel obliged to add that I get up and help because I would feel rude not to, not because I am a woman. I know that MIL puts in a huge amount of effort at Christmas, and it exhausts her.

I know they are only teasing her, but criticism all round of SIL's turkey carving skills. I looked the men in the eye and announced that if they didn't like it, they always had the option to get up and do it themselves.

Silence all round .

I don't tolerate this with dh, but he does need to be reminded, sometimes.