So is Christmas women's work then?

[Katisha]

Following on from my thread here in which in would appear that left to their own deives most, (not all), men would hardly bother with Christmas at all, I would be interested to know why this is.

Is it because women do it all for them? Is it because only women want all the traditional food, decorations, visiting, card sending and frenzy of present buying?

Are women propping up some ridiculous commercial christmas industry and men are right to despise/ignore it?

Or what?

I didn't start the other thread as a "look how crap men are" one, and you will see me popping up on it now and then trying to draw some wider conclusions, which is why I started this one.

I actually even doubt that many men "expect" the christmassy stuff to be done. I think many of them wouldn't be bothered if much of it didn't happen - cards, presents, social stuff.

I am beginning to wonder if the whole shebang is by women for women, or at by women in order to perpetrate what is seen as a "proper" Christmas. Much as I like it, and feel nostalgic for the Christmasses of my childhood, I am wondering whether it's right to keep up such a frenzy of work, spending and most of all, expectation...

I certainly agree that it largely seems to be women who are putting themselves under pressure to produce a "perfect" Christmas - I can't think of any threads where women are saying that their partners are putting them under pressure to do this stuff. Maybe interesting to consider where the perceived pressure comes from - their own side of the family, their inlaws, their friends, the media picture of what they should be doing? Why is it such a big deal to do it "right"?

Having given it some thought, DH and I have put the same amount of effort into preparing Christmas this year. I've just faffed a lot more about it. I like to buy the right coloured crackers. DH would just throw the cheapest into the trolly.

Usually I would do more cooking, but only because I think that I cook a better roast dinner than DH, and I certainly don't do the washing up. The annoying thing is before I married DH I made it very clear to his mother and grandmother I didn't do roast Sunday lunches. Ever since they have complementd DH on a fabulous meal when ever we've had a roast.

'Sorry to harp on, but WHY are men generally not very interested in presents, cards, the wider social implications beyond their own immediate family?

Same with birthdays to some extent, where the remembering and sending of cards/presents falls to the woman.

I just wonder if women should just stop some of this and see what happens.'

Probably cause its pointless. I recieved a card this year to me and my family and they wrote the wrong name for our child! Why send me a card we hardly no each other its a waste of card imo. I dont write anyone cards for this reason and I hate cards. Same goes for presents what is the point of you buying someone a gift for a tenner then them sending you a voucher or whatever.

To me it is pointless Christmas is a time for pressies for the kids and eating, drinking and being together. My parents used to send cards to all and sundry and I stil get them but I have never sent any back not since I moved out. I will just write happy birthday on facebook instead.

Actually the birthday stuff is interesting. DH is responsible for his family, and me for mine. It is true that my family get better, more prepared gifts! But then, his family as a group aren't so into birthdays. Eg my mother will send my birthday present to me anywhere in the world I happen to be while DH's family only give gifts if you happen to be in the same city!

However, we have friends where the wife organises the man's social life. Which DH finds absolutely astonishing. One of his friends' wives texted DH to suggest that DH and her DH meet up and suggested he ask me when a good time was. He hit the roof!

Katisha I'm really not so sure that it is a fact that men aren't so fussed about christmas festivities, and would be perfectly happy without it all.

I know many men who would blow a fuse if their christmas suddenly didn't happen. I think that for many though that is the case - it just sort of "happens" and they aren't required to think about how much work etc. And of course a lot of women collude in this.

Of course men like big delicious meals and christmas trees and presents. I mean, who doesn't?

Mad - is DH okay? Does this mean you haven't gone to Canada?

You're right snowflake, cards are pretty pointless most of the time. They made sense in the days before phones and internet to wish a happy christmas to those you couldn't see or speak to. But now? It's a big waste of time and paper IMO.

We are trying very hard to pick and choose the parts of Christmas that we want and not bother about other people's expectations.

Like with everything else in this house, we don't have gender-divided roles. We do the bits we are best suited to.
So I do tree, decorations and cooking. He does cards, intensive pre- and post-Christmas cleaning and remembering to have enough paper and sellotape.
He buys presents for his side, I buy for mine, we swap ideas and info for all present giving.
I remember the crackers, and the wine. He remembers relishes and odd bits and bobs.
We've always enjoyed Christmas, I can't stand all the martyred rolling of eyes, sighing and 'What shall I do about...' nonsense that many acquaintances do. It's as if the true joy for them is the extended moaning they get to indulge in.
And yes, they are all women.

In my experience, predominantly yes

It's not about feminism - it's about capitalism and as most women control household spending, business focuses on appealing to them. And you make a lot more money out of focusing on pre-Xmas prep, selling ingredients and cooking items / food through October and November, wrapping paper, events, advent calendars etc etc etc, the perfect gift, the perfect home experience.

They wouldn't make much money if men were in charge - one shopping day (xmas eve) and all food was bought ready made at Iceland. [semi-serious emoticon]

I think men have the advantage here. Having lived with DH for 10 years I now don't do decorations, tree, cards for anyone other than long-distance people or elderly relations, personalised or special wrapping, food preparation or baking, etc. Food, family and presents is what it's all about

I think Christmas is about hospitality and inviting your extended family for a cheerful get together. And women are generally a lot better at hospitality than men - hence they do Christmas.

For some reason, more women seem to show their love by providing good food and company.

Men I've come across don't show love and affection in this way.

Maybe some do, I don't know.

We know how men show love and affection

Sad to say it, but you're right, soir

Tondelayo - Exactly some people just get pulled in to the marketing/advertising thing more than others. It doesnt mean you have a 'perfect' Christmas just because you have matching crackers, co -ordinating decorations and have sent cards to every random you have ever spoke to since school. A Christmas is perfect because you are spending it with loved ones ime.

Also nowt wrong with Iceland prepacked stuff I will be getting Iceland party platters and cider from there for all my mates Christmas night.

Nowt wrong with Iceland at all

Shh you arent allowed to say that on mumsnet its against the rules

Surely Xmas is just a microcosm of other stuff like that. It's just an occasion where there's cooking, planning, present buying etc to be done. So for the same reasons women bear the burden of housework, caring, remembering to get presents etc, they do it at xmas too.

I don't buy that having a vagina makes you better at any of that stuff, so I don't take it all on. We take care of our own family etc. We also don't really do xmas very much, so I don't think the vagina makes xmas important either.

I just see it as an example of the bigger thing, thus patterns are the same and thus reasons are the same.

I LOVE Xmas.
DH can take or leave it.

This isn't because of our gender, but because of the types of people we are, and our upbringing (my family are xmas-mad, DH's not so).

DH is not a festive, party type of person, whereas I get HUGE pleasure out of choosing gifts, sorting stockings, xmas crafts, seeing lots of family.

I do most things re. xmas, but DH deals with all relevant childcare to free me to do this (long shopping trips on my own for weeks before - heaven).

However, we share cooking and wrapping duties.

What Alice said.

bling - oh, he's fine, my lovely - referring to well-past accident, nothing recent. yes, yes, we're in snowy canada, have been for ages. i accidentally mislaid my posting name (ok - took exception to the installation of fb and twitter) and flounced for a brief period before crawling back, so you won't have 'seen' me for a while. all fine and dandy though. pm me and let me know how married life is treating you! (there's a dubious invitation for the feminism topic, but you know what i mean) hope all well x

Hmm xmas is infact lot less stressy now divoiced xh liked it just so and used to drive me mad because when shopping things had to match decor etc.Now just me and dc last 4 years or so it's just so easy we dint even do tradtional dinner xmasday me and dc will have the Xmas menu at the pub Xmas eve wgen is 1/4 of the price of Xmas day

When I was a child my mum did absolutely everything and she hated Christmas because of it. He saw the whole housekeeping, kitchen, family thing as the females job (on top of Mum's full time one) at any time of the year so he certainly wouldn't have felt the need to pitch in come Christmas!

Once we were teens and dad was gone Christmas became a whole family affair and we did the bits we enjoyed. I decorated the tree. I usually made the starter, my brother did the mains and pudding was heated by mum. Mum also made and iced the Christmas cake. Mum and I usually did the food shopping. Everyone bought and wrapped their own presents.

Now I'm with DH and he doesn't celebrate Christmas at all and never has so anything I want to do I have to do (which is absolutely nothing apart from a meal this year). For Christmas dinner he helps as much as he would doing any roast dinner (quite a lot actually).

I'm lucky I think! I would hate to be like my poor mum dreading Christmas every year!