Anti Feminist Bingo!!

[TheFeministParent]

Elephants had this idea!!

So I'll start

"we're not a homogeneous mass..."
"I don't like to be too narrow..."

A bit like black people using the "n word", Leningrad. I'm sorry, but I still can't stand it, even when it's "not my business" to stand it or not to. There are plenty of traitors within any group, whose use of a co-opted word is suspect.

mathanxiety, did you mean those phrases as antifeminist or as comebacks to anti-feminist comments? They work either way, which is particularly great because it's so infuriating to have something repeated back to you (viz toddlers). It would be great to provoke a meltdown in someone who a moment before was accusing you of being hysterical or emotional! . As for whether that then lays a woman open to the charge of being patronising - well, such an abrupt change of insult (in this hypothetical argument, from emotional/embittered/hysterical to patronising) is a mark of desperation and not really being sure what one's arguing about (not actually having an argument, just attacking). Prejudice proven.

apparently there is a "thing" called 'patriarchal reversal' whereby women are actually acused of being and doing certain things when hard facts and evidence prove it is actually men who do those things as a group. Total projection.

:o wukter

Have we had "hormonal"?

"You can't get a man"

And bonus point for any comparison with female animals: hens, cows, geese etc

interesting sakura - you know research showed that men talk more than women? they did a study where they asembled a random groupof strangers, ostensily for a different experiment, left them waiting together...the male experimentees talked more....

hang on, have we missed out "you're just saying that about because you hate man!"

Always with an air of aha! triumph.

^because you hate MEN" that is :)

Wukter - PMSL there.

Pluperfect, I meant them as examples of stfu speech directed at women that attempts to reduce perceptions of oppression or injustice to 'merely' one pov, and a skewed one at that, one that is abnormal and the result of some extraordinary circumstance that would naturally tend to produce way out impressions.

I hadn't considered the potential to use them the other way round (doh), but yes, it could be fun

LG, I agree; I would also like to add my own personal irritation at the tendency I have seen so much here on MN for women to use their allegedly hormonal state, especially while pregnant, as a means of venturing an opinion (on a baby name for instance) but apologising for it at the same time.

The idea that women are the creatures of their hormones (while men are independent actors not affected by testosterone at all ) has been used to keep women down, keep them from financial independence, keep them from careers, from driving, from voting -- from being taken seriously in general, for centuries. Why do we repeat this nonsense? Why do we apologise for our opinions or venture them half-heartedly in this way?

Same goes for blonde jokes. Even though I'm not blonde, I think they're horrible and perpetuate the myth that women can either be brainy or attractive (while at the same time sending out the sinister message that even an attractive woman shouldn't feel less unworthy of respect than her frumpy sister).

I'm still upset by the idea of "patriarchal reversal". Do you suppose it is a bit like the Daily Mail, in which some women ventriloquise incredibly disempowering and self-hatred-inducing ideas?

Not just the DM, obviously.

"Well, I've never seen a woman be commented on for her attire at work/be paid a lower salary/etc etc, therefore, as far as i'm concerned it doesn't happen and I don't care that you have experienced it, you're only one person, you're an anomaly."

Sorry, I'm trying to think of a good comeback other than, twat.
Maybe: "I bet you don't see a lot of racism first hand either, privileged middle class white man. Tell me, where are all the women and non white company directors?

"There are young women drinking on the street and this is what feminists want. Feminism encourages a ladette culture."

"Whereas men are impeccibly well behaved, always. Obviously."

"You haven't had children so are unqualified to discuss feminist issues regarding childbirth, My wife has had children therefore I am right, you are wrong, there's no such thing as the patriarchy so stop arguing with me."

Ok, this is getting personal, i'll stop now!

msrisotto - yes it always gets me that whenever women are deemed to be behaving more like men in a negative sense, it is said to be a very bad thing for women to do.

Women are paid less because they take maternity leave and don't put themselves forward for promotion because they want to prioritise their children.

To whch the response is: So why have we constructed a society where child-rearing is penalised, when it's actually the basis of all human society?

msrisotto that thread comes back to me often as being hugely illustrative of male obliviousness. The comments directed at you were utterly contemptible.

What a knob. Men like that spoil things for the decent ones.

How ironic that said oblivious knob thought he had anything of value to say...

As for the "harmless teasing" business, would it be too much to point out that the "soldiers" at Abu Ghraib were just having a laugh, too?

They were, as well. Their prisoners, however, were not. Not reeeeally.

Ah but they'll see the joke when they "get over themselves".

Honestly you lot, what do you want? Perhaps to make men guilty until proven innocent? Eh? Eh? I know none of you have ever ever said this, but I know that's what you're thinking. Because as a man I am naturally empathetic and able to sense emotions - oh no, wait a second.

Also - "I am worried about my son being accused of rape". To which the answer is probably "if you think you might be raising a rapist, then go home and teach him about active consent and respect for other people's bodies quickly".

"Being wrongly accused of rape is AT LEAST AS BAD as being raped."

Can't think of a response to this, too fumey.

Except the usual statistical stuff of course.

"pole dancers/porn stars/glamour models are making money so they are in control"

"Isn't feminism about choice?"

Yes. Yes it is. In fact, generations of women have suffered, struggled and protested for this exact reason: so you could gyrate around a pole in your pants. They are very proud.

pluperfect
Yes the concept of patriarchal reversal is frightening isn't it. Here's a totally unrelated Guardian article written by Charlie Brooker on Nick Clegg. It reminded me of the games "The Patriarchy" plays:

'Clegg's most recent act of clegging was to explain to this newspaper that the Institute of Fiscal Studies was wrong to brand the spending review "unfair".

"I think you have to call a spade a spade," he clegged, immediately before demonstrating his commitment to straightforward language by querying the definition of the word "fair".

The previous administration's simplistic "culture of how you measure fairness", was partly to blame for the Institute's foolishness, clegged Clegg in a cleggish tone of voice. In previous years, "fairness was seen through one prism and one prism only". It turns out fairness is actually more complex and slightly less fair than that. According to Clegg it's important to call a spade a spade, unless you've mistaken the spade for a digging implement, which it isn't. A spade is a kind of towel."

LOL

I like Dittany's description of patriarchy: it's a mind fuck

StacySolomonismyheroine OMG, loved this:

"So why have we constructed a society where child-rearing is penalised, when it's actually the basis of all human society?"

As for making money from prostitution/ pole dancing/ stripping, why is it not sad that this is how some people earn a living?

If it were really that great, people would pay to do it. Oh, wait, people do pay to pole-dance (hen weekends and so on.)

Gah.

Ah, no-one pays for a stripping hen-weekend, or a prostitution hen weekend!

"I can't be a feminist because I actually like men"