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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Debriefing: a wedding

293 replies

vezzie · 22/11/2010 14:01

I went to a wedding at the weekend and ended up thoroughly depressed, as I often do after weddings. Please indulge me, because I want to talk about it.
The bride is one of the most dynamic, active, imaginative and intelligent people I know. She was patronised and belittled throughout ? ?who gives this woman ???? and during the speeches she looked very uncomfortable. I have never seen her so quiet and when it was clear that she didn?t like what was being said it seemed very strange that there was no opportunity for her to own the floor in her own style. I have never heard so little of her voice, ever, and yet she was notionally the centre of attention.
I suppose what is troubling me ? and there is no natural justice in what I am about to say - is that she is so close to the top of so many pecking orders (beautiful, clever, talented, well loved, well educated, professionally respected) that it seems obvious that her husband should be so near to the top of all the male pecking orders (tall, handsome, very rich, in a very well paying job) and yet unfair that this sort of man seems almost inevitably to bring the expectations that his wife will take a very traditional and subservient role. Without wanting to imply that anyone deserves to be pushed about, because they don?t, I suppose I am upset that this woman, who is brilliant, is now going to play second fiddle to a tosser for the rest of her life.

I hate weddings. I always start off all excited and filled with love and joy and enjoy the sentimental moment where you can look at the couple and do a mental 6-Feet-Under-like montage where you imagine them surrounded by children, growing older, surrounded by grand children, retiring together etc. Then at some point I am forced to realise that the whole thing is filling me with profound unease and it is as well if I am not too drunk or I have to find a cupboard to hide in and cry.

DP said, when I was telling him how sad I was feeling on Sunday, ?Why do you take it so personally?? I just shrugged and changed the subject. Later I thought, ?Because it is like this. Suppose you were invited to a housewarming party and you bought a present and wrote a card expressing all the good wishes that you have for the people in their new house, and you dressed up and turned up ready to celebrate and saw everyone else looking beautiful and happy and joyful, and the hosts offered to show you round and then you realised during the tour that the whole thing runs on a basement floor inhabited by slaves, it would slightly put a dampener on the occasion, especially if you were the same kind of person as the slaves.? This is of course a gross exaggeration.

We are not married. I often think we should be, and then I go to a wedding and I?m back to square 1.
What do feminists do about getting married?

OP posts:
HerBeatitude · 01/12/2010 20:18

What I found interesting, is how angry people seem to be by the questioning of the "traditional" (traditional being quite recent inventions of course). That thing of the MIL being so bloody rude is quite fascinating - if it were her son speaking, or son in law, most people wouldn't dream of heckling or interrupting at a wedding - it's almost tantamount to singing "it should have been me" at the "does any man here know of any just cause..." bit. It is the most crass bad manners and yet she felt entitled to behave that way, I presume, purely because the speech-maker was a woman, which shows how all her normal well-mannered boundaries were simply thrown away by one small (?) change in convention.

Unless of course, she is the MIL from hell and disrupts every formal occasion with attention-seeking nuttiness. Am interested to get Chaya's feedback on this.

AitchTwoOh · 01/12/2010 20:38

i didn't see people getting angry at the questioning of the traditional tbh bea. i saw vezzie making all sorts of assumptions about anyone who disagreed with her (in my case, that i 'have the whole world on your side, with its padded cards with pictures of pwitty bwides in white fwocks on'.) to me, that clarified what the initial post was really about. not discomfort at her friend being done down by the patriarchy, but distaste at the fact that she wanted a traditional wedding. this is about snobbery i think, more than it is feminism. and the fact that vezzie thinks her friend has married 'a tosser'.

Maisiethemorningsidecat · 01/12/2010 20:48

I'm not sure that anyone got angry about the questionning of the traditional - many on here didn't have a 'traditional' wedding, and those who did, did so out of choice. There were simply far too many assumptions made by the OP about her friend's wedding based on the fact (it would appear) that she didn't approve of the form the wedding took and that she thought the groom was a tosser.

What's really strange (to me) is that she was obviously very upset Hmm by the whole event and the effect it had on her friend, but chose to come on here rather than sitting down with her friend and a bottle of wine, and making sure she was OK, had in fact enjoyed her day and was safe in her marriage to the tosser. Is suspect it's because she knows that her friend would kick her bum if she knew that her wedding had been compared to finding a basement full of slaves.

HerBeatitude · 01/12/2010 20:51

Oh god I don't think I would advise sitting down with friend and bottle of wine. Grin

Maisiethemorningsidecat · 01/12/2010 21:05

Why not? If she was that concerned about her friend and the subservient, second fiddle role she's going to play to a tosser for the rest of her life, surely she'd want to let her know that she was there for her?

No, of course, much better to make massive assumptions based on her preferences for both wedding style and groom and feign concern from the safety of an online forum Wink

HopeForTheJingleBells · 01/12/2010 21:15

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on request of its author.

AitchTwoOh · 01/12/2010 21:23

yes, we are conspiring to answer the point that bea just made, rather lazily adhering to her wording and sentence structure... Hmm

AitchTwoOh · 01/12/2010 21:23

eeew. that Hmm looks rather angry. Wink Grin

Maisiethemorningsidecat · 01/12/2010 21:24

No conspiracy - we are actually the same person Grin. It was a bit similar, now that I read it back...!

Sakura · 02/12/2010 00:46

I agree HerBeautitude, there has been fury aimed at the OP for questioning convention.

Maisiethemorningsidecat · 02/12/2010 09:56

Fury??! You are choosing to imagine things that simply aren't there, but not much anyone can do about that. Ho hum.

AitchTwoOh · 02/12/2010 10:15

lol at fury. Grin

Maisiethemorningsidecat · 02/12/2010 11:11

In fact, I'm so furious at the suggestion of fury that I'm simply too furious to type

Grin
AitchTwoOh · 02/12/2010 11:12

you see? typical hysterical woman. (which i think is what the fury post was trying to say...)

Sakura · 02/12/2010 12:27

imagining things that aren't there.... hmm, I think that goes for the people who have written some downright horrible posts towards the OP, accusing her of allsorts, telling her she'd said things she hadn't about her friend.

Sakura · 02/12/2010 12:42

Maisie, Aitch, can I ask you something? Why are you so confused by the fact that the OP has mentioned some random event from her life on MN, and wants to talk about it.
In classics, there's a hilarious pom-bear thread. Why don't you go and lambast the OP for questioning whether that couple are bonkers. Go and have a go at her for posting on MN, instead of sitting down with a bottle of wine with said friend.
Or all the women who complain about their husbands.
Or all the ones who want advise about MILs
Hell, let's just shut down MN... if nobody is supposed to ask opinions about RL situations

Hmm
Maisiethemorningsidecat · 02/12/2010 13:15

Oh Sakura - I thought you were my new bezzie mate?

Why are you being so cruel

Sakura · 02/12/2010 13:23

oh, I wish I was your bezzie mate, you sound like a right barrel of laughs

Maisiethemorningsidecat · 02/12/2010 13:33

Yesterday you were sending me and Smile and welcoming me into the fold....and here you are 24 hours later being so fickle and so cruel

AitchTwoOh · 02/12/2010 13:36

interesting use of 'confused', sakura, very curious.

because maisie and i don't agree with you we are showing 'fury' and we are 'confused'? why are you so intent on undermining us in this way? not very sisterly.

please read my posts, you will find neither confusion nor fury. i think that vezzie is trying to disguise snobbery with feminism. please see "You have the whole world on your side, with its padded cards with pictures of pwitty bwides in white fwocks on" for demonstration of such snobbery.

Sakura · 02/12/2010 13:40

why are you acting like snobbery is suddenly a crime on MN
Aitch, I read fury into your posts, into your entire posting style on this thread

Sakura · 02/12/2010 13:41

if you want to put people off MN you are certainly going the right way about it!

Maisiethemorningsidecat · 02/12/2010 13:44

Nooooooo Sakura - I can't take anymore. I need the again, I want to be welcomed into the fold. Why are you being like this, why????

AitchTwoOh · 02/12/2010 13:50

well you read away, Sakura, it's all in your own head. and what's the crack about putting people off MN, since when was that my responsibility? what are you on about?

as for snobbery, again, what are you on about? this is a discussion... that is what i think is really going on here, i think this whole thread has bog-all to do with the patriarchy and everything to do with the fact that vezzie doesn't like 'pwitty fwocks' and is disappointed that her friend does. but go ahead and think something else, by all means, that's the point of this place, isn't it? Hmm

Sakura · 02/12/2010 13:54

it's not your responsibility to not put people off MN, but if enough people feel that they can't start a thread without people giving them the third degree in a furious way, then they're going to be put off, IMO

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