Right then, can I get you opinion on something. Abuse in of women in post war Berlin

[girlylala0807]

Good evening,

Im studying history at university. We have recently been discussing the rape of German women by the Red Army. As im sure you understand, it is a very sensitive topic. However, ive beena bit shocked by the attitudes of fellow students. I dont know if its because im older, well im 30 most of them are 21.

So the stance most of them had was that rape in this case was acceptable and that Berlin women could not be considered to be victims.

They said it was acceptable when you viewed it in the context of the Holocaust. They also said that basically all Germans were guilty of some kind of Nazi crime so they deserved what they got.

This does not sit well with me. Can you share your thoughts with me on this one ladies.

Yes, I didn't know that.

please don't let this turn into a slanging match
this was an incredibly useful and informative thread

The UN troops are useless. Unless, in fact, they happen to be British or one or two other nationalities.

I am totally shocked by the attitude. Rape is never acceptable or justified-whatever the circumstances.

my grandmother, both her brothers and great-grandmother were raped post war by the russian troops.
only about 5 years ago it was recognised by the german health services and counceling was offered - much too late for many.
before that it was a taboo, just not spoken about.

There is a huge difference. In most armies, rape is not condoned and for example some American soldiers were executed for rape in Normandy. The Russian rapes were effectively condoned and the soldiers weren't executed. It sounds like the DRC is the same and that rape is being used as a weapon of war and terror and is being condoned.

SGM, you have made this point before about Bosnia. On that occasion you claimed that 'British commanding officers' participated in rape camps.

That was, and remains, a very serious claim indeed.

I note that you have now changed the details of the claim to saying it was 'NATO' troops who abused the women.

Exactly who are you accusing and where is the evidence? Why hasn't this been the subject of a prosecution or enquiry?

As I said, I have a strong interest in this, having had a book published on the subject of rape in post-war Berlin. My book took me years to write. I feel very strongly about this subject.

Mousymouse - I'm so sorry and sad for your family about what those men did to your relatives. The silencing of victims is incredibly powerful and cruel.

This is a very informative thread - I had no idea about any of this or even about the White Rose group, I always knew history teaching in this country was crap.

The use of rape as a weapon of war is so little talked about, but so common, it's heartbreaking. This is just one reason why I wear a white ribbon for remembrance day - there are plenty of victims of war and most of them are not remembered at the cenotaph.

"If you see war in terms of men giving themselves permission to attack and destroy women, it becomes a lot easier to understand what was going on." - that is a very thought-provoking perspective, that makes sense if you think of the common motivation for joining up "to protect our mothers/wives/sisters/children". From what? Because they are the targets of conflict?

OP- your fellow students sound as if they would make fine sympathisers for any genocidal regime. They are justifying the rape by dehumanising the women (and men) it happened to. They sound vile and TBH I would find it hard to be in a class with them. Could you talk to your tutor and ask to bring it up again in another session? When you could prepare in advance?