Sex Porn and Teenagers 8pm Monday 4/10 BBC Radio 4

[LadyBiscuit]

That's in 5 mins :)

From the BBC website:

" "Shag bands" are thin coloured rubber bracelets, indicating how far the wearer will go sexually if the band is broken.

Purple for a kiss or yellow for a hug may seem comparatively harmless but some of the other colours such as black for full intercourse or blue for oral sex ring alarm bells.

A Wakefield MP recently campaigned to stop shops selling them after complaints from parents including a mother who innocently bought some for her 6-year old's party bag. Elsewhere schools have banned "shag bands" after finding pupils wearing them.

Part of playground culture, they're often worn innocently or in a show of bravado but there is a darker side where early sexual exploration strays into the easily accessible world of internet porn. Where children once passed notes, they now use their mobile phones to share explicit images and there's peer pressure through social networking sites.

Presenter Miranda Sawyer, herself a mother, investigates whether society and parents are aware of just what their children are getting up to and asks how concerned should we be about the sexualisation of children in media, advertising and fashion such as sale of padded bras for pre-pubescent girls or sexual references on T shirts for primary-aged kids.

Even though teenage pregnancy rates are falling, Britain still has the highest rate in Western Europe. As many as 1 in 4 teenagers have underage sex with anecdotal evidence of sexual experimentation including anal sex to avoid pregnancy. However sex education is improving in schools and access to contraception and STI screening has never been better.

But there are concerns that unlike the 'dirty mags' of their parent's day, teenagers now access porn which can be addictive, desensitising and threatening to healthy relationships in the future."

Scary but essential listening I think

[Alwaysworthchecking]

Sorry to divert from the interesting discussion, but can somebody tell me if I have inadvertently bought dd (7) shag bands? I bought her some animal-shaped wrist bands in Rymans as she saw them on a friend and wanted some. I just thought rubber bands that pinged back to animal shapes were a bit of fun.

[AnyFucker]

but sunny, in our culture, I don't think shoving it down children's throats (excuse the pun) from an early age is a good thing either

[AnyFucker]

I think animals are ok, AWC

[HerBeatitude]

Sunny your solution seems to be that we don't allow our children to participate in the modern world by allowing them to have mobiles etc.

Well I think the modern world should be changed, so that my DS can participate in it without being bombarded by porn made for mysogynist adults. I don't want to keep my DS in a bubble, I want the world to be more adapted to non-mysogynists and children.

[HerBeatitude]

And that doesn't mean that there should be no such thing as adult material. Just that he shouldn't be exposed to it as he is phoning his friend, walking into a supermarket, or surfing the web for homework.

[AnyFucker]

good point

we all know that porn is so entrenched in normal day-to-day business, it just isn't good enough to say "well, don't let 'em watch it then"

of course we don't knowingly "let 'em watch it"

too simplistic, when to use a very everyday example, I walk into WHSMith to see two bimbo's rubbing their nipples together on the front page of Loaded

[HerBeatitude]

So Sunny, are you saying that the pornification of our culture is a Good Thing?

[AnyFucker]

I meant to say "good point, HB"

[AnyFucker]

@ SGM

I nearly qualified that "animals" statement but I didn't want to prompt any misunderstandings...

[sunny2010]

I wouldnt ever buy an 11 year old a mobile phone no definitely not and I would never advocate a teen under 16 being on the net without me watching them. Not even for a minute and no facebook unless I have the log in details. I wouldnt allow email unless I had log in details either. I would never allow a teen to have a laptop or any family member to use the computer unless it was situated in the living room but I am harsh.

I would however think it was ok if my 15 year old wanted to have sex I would allow it to happen in my house as long as they were protected and use both pills and condoms and discussed it with me. As I said I definitely dont think stopping a teen from doing it will stop them.

Alwaysworthchecking - those animals ones arent shag bands its just the normal coloured circle bands.

[HerBeatitude]

So Sunny, are you in favour of the pornification of our culture?

Do you think it's OK that our teenager's views of sex are now being determined by the most hard core porn, the sort of stuff some of us didn't discover until we were in our twenties with partners we trusted enough to experiment with?

[sunny2010]

'So Sunny, are you saying that the pornification of our culture is a Good Thing?'

No I am realistic and dont think that I will be able to stop my kids from accesssing porn just as my parents couldnt stop me. That was before we had any of this new fangled stuff we only had crappy bad tracking videos and magazines. Still saw porn in my youth.

I do however think it is ridiculous how parents today allow their children to have access to tvs or computers when they arent watching them. I wasnt allowed a tv in my room until I was 16 and dont think I should of been (not just for sex programmes but in general). I know people who are allowed to do homework in their own rooms with laptops and think their parents must actually be mental.

However I think its silly when people act like just because you enjoy porn or play on COD etc you are some kind of person who engages in the most extreme behaviour in RL.

I also dont agree at all that all porn stars are forced or all porn/sex industry caters to men. I think by saying that then it seems like women are the passive ones who dont care about sex and reinforces the stereotype of women being the gatekeepers of sex and never knowing their own minds. I also dont think there is anything wrong with an under 16 having sex and would rather no about it than them doing it in a field or a back alley.

I wouldnt know what you are classing as extreme but I was married by 20 and had been engaged for a couple of years by then so I think waiting until your 20s to experiment with some things is probably later than what I did myself.

[HerBeatitude]

Yes we already know you enjoy porn and that you don't believe that some women in the porn industry are coerced. Leaving aside the fact that just because some aren't, that leaves us with the problem that most are, this thread isn't actually about that; it's about how our children are being groomed to view their own sexuality through the prism of porn merchants, because they are the people who are getting through to them more effectively than anybody else.

So what can we do about it overall? (That's a question to everyone else - I'm not really interested in your response Sunny, sorry, because "nothing" isn't an answer I can go with.)

How do we lobby to make it so that ISP's are responsible for the porn they carry? What was this thing about making porn go on the xxx region of the interweb?

[HerBeatitude]

And vis education as well. The English can't really cope with sex education, can they?

[sunny2010]

But having sex is ok and a normal thing. If they are educated and using protection and I know where they are. Having access to the net/social networking/any porn site etc is obviously way, way worse.

As I said I would never allow this computer I am on now not to be in the living room and I wont allow my teen to ever go on it without me here. The net is one of the most dangerous things out there and a place full of people that could groom your child you would have to be mental to allow an under 16 on it without supervision imo. Having sex with their boyfriends is completely different in my eyes.

If you go on the porn sites on a school computer you get in massive trouble. My brother did that and got expelled from the library for a month and they rang my parents and he nearly lost his place on his college course for trying something like that a couple of years ago. He was older as well he was nearly 18 and at actually college not school. I know for a fact they come down way harder than you if they are at school.

[sunny2010]

'How do we lobby to make it so that ISP's are responsible for the porn they carry? What was this thing about making porn go on the xxx region of the interweb?'

People can set up ways of making it so porn goes through. There would be nothing they could do to stop porn from getting through and that is why they havent done it. People will just put it on other ways and as stewiegriffinsmom said just as kids can if get round the parental blocks obviously people that are good at computers would get around that.

[HerBeatitude]

Sunny you'd presumably be happy to allow your 14 year old dd to have sex.

Would you be happy if you knew that the first few times she did it, before she had learned what she liked, what pleased her, before she had ever had an orgasm during sex, she was forced down on her knees and made to suck her boyfriend's cock until he came on her face? Would you be happy to know that he slapped her round the face several times with his penis and that she was made to gag and that when she said she didn't like it, he said that's what everyone did and if she didn't like it she was an uptight prude?

Would you be happy that she had been anally penetrated and put through terrible pain until she cried, because her boyfriend had seen that in porn and thought that's what you should do, but of course wasn't experienced enough to know that you have to do it gently, but that she rationalised it as normal because everyone did it and her girlfriends just said that that's just what you have to do, it's part of sex and the modern equivalent of "Lie back and think of England"?

And would you be happy to know that her boyfriend had filmed some of their sex sessions and sent them to his friend's mobile phones or uploaded them to Facebook?

Because that is what "having sex with your boyfriend" now means for a far too significant number of vulnerable teenage girls. Do you really think we should be relaxed about this?

[Chica31]

I am 33, to add context. I had sex at 15 and it was far too young and has affected me badly over the years. I was put under pressure by teen mags such as More. After lots of heavy flirting I can remember thinking I can't be a "prick tease" so I must go through with it.

I worry so much for young girls, I only had mags to worry about, there is so much more out there now.

[sunny2010]

'And vis education as well. The English can't really cope with sex education, can they?

I am 1000000% behind education. I definitely do not think that saying dont do it works, wait until your married or some other outdated response. My mum used to say things like when I got married I was so naive I didnt even know a man had to have an erection. I used to be like what are you talking about mum? Argh!! Also at school they talk about really ridiculous things like showing you a cartoon video of a couple having sex. All I remember from that video is that you have to cover yourself up cause you might get cold (they actually said that!). Also then it panned out on the screen and went to a cat on the roof! I remember being like wtf? I was only 11 and knew about what sex was but still thought that was weird and didnt really tell me anything.

My mum didnt like me reading magazines that might have stuff of a sexual nature in but I loved them. I advocate them for any young girl as mine taught me the full details of contraception, how to ask for what I liked when I have sex, different ways to bring myself pleasure (I obviously already knew some) and all about STDS. I fully think that by letting my daughter have sex at home that it will be better. I wanted sex and dont regret any of my sexual experiences. I remember the conflicting messages that if you acted on those urges as a young female then there it was bad or a boy forced you. I remember then thinking it was a load of crap and still do now.

I think by saying if you want to do it fine if you want to wait then fine. Its not like that though its if you do it you are bad and must hide it from society (of course didnt stop anyone from actually doing it).

[sunny2010]

'Sunny you'd presumably be happy to allow your 14 year old dd to have sex.

Would you be happy if you knew that the first few times she did it, before she had learned what she liked, what pleased her, before she had ever had an orgasm during sex, she was forced down on her knees and made to suck her boyfriend's cock until he came on her face? Would you be happy to know that he slapped her round the face several times with his penis and that she was made to gag and that when she said she didn't like it, he said that's what everyone did and if she didn't like it she was an uptight prude?'

As I said I knew how to say no, how to ask for what I want and have always been very confident my whole life and never had anyone coerce me. I would teach my child the same and will talk in depth about everything orgasms, masturbation, sex etc. I have no embarassment at all on this subject and think that way my influence will be the main influence rather than outside influences. (my mum didnt teach me a lot of that I learnt it from magazines but as I was already a very confident teen I just used that information so I was lucky I was like that and had access to mags however some arent).

Have you ever seen sex with mum and dad on bbc3? If so I want to be like the woman sex therapist she understands what it is like to be a teenager and shows the parents how to be. I really like her and aspire to be like that when talking to my own kids. All the people respect her as she talks to the kids normally and no subject is barred and there is no embarrassment at all.

[AnyFucker]

HB, that post is chilling (as the mother of a 14 yo dd)

but also for my 11 yo son

my Thorntons chocs have lost their appeal for the moment