Sex Porn and Teenagers 8pm Monday 4/10 BBC Radio 4

[LadyBiscuit]

That's in 5 mins :)

From the BBC website:

" "Shag bands" are thin coloured rubber bracelets, indicating how far the wearer will go sexually if the band is broken.

Purple for a kiss or yellow for a hug may seem comparatively harmless but some of the other colours such as black for full intercourse or blue for oral sex ring alarm bells.

A Wakefield MP recently campaigned to stop shops selling them after complaints from parents including a mother who innocently bought some for her 6-year old's party bag. Elsewhere schools have banned "shag bands" after finding pupils wearing them.

Part of playground culture, they're often worn innocently or in a show of bravado but there is a darker side where early sexual exploration strays into the easily accessible world of internet porn. Where children once passed notes, they now use their mobile phones to share explicit images and there's peer pressure through social networking sites.

Presenter Miranda Sawyer, herself a mother, investigates whether society and parents are aware of just what their children are getting up to and asks how concerned should we be about the sexualisation of children in media, advertising and fashion such as sale of padded bras for pre-pubescent girls or sexual references on T shirts for primary-aged kids.

Even though teenage pregnancy rates are falling, Britain still has the highest rate in Western Europe. As many as 1 in 4 teenagers have underage sex with anecdotal evidence of sexual experimentation including anal sex to avoid pregnancy. However sex education is improving in schools and access to contraception and STI screening has never been better.

But there are concerns that unlike the 'dirty mags' of their parent's day, teenagers now access porn which can be addictive, desensitising and threatening to healthy relationships in the future."

Scary but essential listening I think

[sethstarkaddersmum]

[trish108]

If you are concerned about what your children access online then do some research and find a good software product that can filter it out.

Then make sure your child can't get around it!

The real key is communication and education, and for the younger children - supervision of time on the internet.

It is feasible to expect ISP's to block porn. It is not something to be left up to someone else - it is up to us as parents.

When my son was 12 and I couldn't be there to supervise his internet usage I used to take the actual electrical cord with me, and no we didn't have an electric kettle either :)

[sarah1888]

Yeah, sorry, it seems i read the first page and replied - i didn't realise there were 10 other pages, sorry if what i posted was mainly irrelevant

[HerBeatitude]

Hmm, Sarah I think you need to read the thread

[sethstarkaddersmummyreturns]

er, Sarah, I don't think anyone has suggested the reason they're a problem is because children are actually having sex every time they get broken!

[sarah1888]

Im 20 -
we had shag bands, at secondary, from year 7/8
and i can honestly say, if you think kids are shagging because they break a band, you are deluded. that's if you could break them, the ones we had were bloody hard to snap!

and no, when they were snapped we didnt descend into an underage orgy. i know lots of peoples got snapped, and i know of not one sexual encounter - even kissing that resulted from it.

i understand people saying its a negative thing for youngesters.
but in all honesty, it was youngsters who made it up.

its a joke, a gimmick, taken more seriously by daily mail readers than the very people who use them. because thats all it is, a gimmick, a shag band by name, not by function.

we used to have a game where you'd hold your hand like an "a ok" scuba sign, inconspicuously at the periphery of the vision of the friend you were talking to. and when they looked at it, you'd count really fast, until they stopped looking, maybe youd get to 5 or 6 , and that would be how many girlfriends or boyfriends they had or times they had had sex. anything, really.
can you stop games like that? where do games like that come from?
from teenagers minds! why?
because they think about sex - alot.
is it because of over sexualisation in society? maybe that makes them slightly more randy.
or perhaps its the tons of hormones surging through their body, which we all experienced, 10 years ago - 100 years ago - 1000 years ago.
teenage sex is a totally different issue really - shag bands didnt start it, and are really not that related, as if you break a shag band, you're not going to get shagged because of it.

[Malificence]

There are lots of "bikini babe" type apps for iphone and their wifi capability means easy downloading of porn, same for ipads and kindles I imagine..

[sethstarkaddersmum]

haven't read whole thread but I've just listened to the programme.

and I think that if the political will was there, children's access to porn via the internet could be made very much harder.

[sunny2010]

Sakura - I havent been trawling old threads I just opened the threads and it was the first that came up. How is that any different from you saying you looked at my threads and said that I had kids etc. You must have seen threads where I wrote that? I havent been trawling ancient threads at all.

I also wasnt going on and on about your childhood. I mentioned it at the end of when I exited thread. I am not looking for an argument and quite a few times I have said I dont want to keep bringing that thread back up but you wont let me. You keep being determined to bring up the 8 kids thing which wasnt even what I said. You have mentioned it in this thread, the wifework thread and at least 5 or 6 times in the cog dis thread. I just want to discuss something else but am not being allowed to.

[vezzie]

Dittany, how do you think this could be done?
Do you know of any MPs who have sympathies in this area?

I need a break from this thread, or this section, so I am off for a bit and then when I?m back I will be on the ?so what can we actually do? thread, if it?s still going. I am feeling really worn down by all this.

[Sakura]

I also haven't mentioned the stately homes thread. Nowhere.

[Sakura]

"Sakura I have seen in your previous posts you said you had a difficult upbringing yourself in the stately homes thread and I was just agreeing that in some areas I think that has clouded your judgment on some things. I know its not your fault. "


Sunny, I haven't posted in the stately homes thread for about 2 years.
It's all becoming clear now.
THat's why you've been going on and on about my childhood. BEcause you've been trawling ancient threads about my experiences.
I'm reporting you

[sunny2010]

Sakura I have seen in your previous posts you said you had a difficult upbringing yourself in the stately homes thread and I was just agreeing that in some areas I think that has clouded your judgment on some things. I know its not your fault.

I said about the raising kids and finding it harder than expected was that due to some mums not being around kids growing up. That wasnt directed at you it was a statement I never said anything to do with you and I am sorry you took that as such. I was saying that in general to people in the thread as not being around familiar people with young babies or kids makes it more difficult. I studied it as part of my degree so was just seeing if that if that was what a lot of people struggled with in RL. It was not meant to cause you or anyone else offence. If you go back and look at no point do I mention you personally.

I didnt agree with all your statements in the cog dis thread and I did find some of your statements towards the way all men are prividged as something I could not personally see myself.

When I was admitting myself in the wifework thread I grew up quite spoilt and couldnt do simple things it was quite embarassing for me to admit. I was that way (and still find it hard) and have found it very difficult to change and that is why I can understand about men that may move straight out of home in to relationships. I admit how my thinking was to get out of it and how I will probably never be as good as some people at things. I will admit thats my only area where I ever feel unconfident and it has made itharder for me to become independent.

I was saying on that thread how you are when you have been brought up in that mindset and how difficult it is to reverse. Its something I have struggled with for years myself. Sorry you didnt find it relevant or kept wanting to turn it around and saying I was talking crap or was suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I also wasnt talking about 'priviledged' upbringings but more that I see it as being priviledged to be lucky enough to stay at home as it is so uncommon in modern society. I think its enlightening on this thread how a lot of people seem to think that staying at home means they will give up so much but having that opporunity in this area is seen as gaining so much and is seen as what everyone aspires to but can never reach. Its a shame for people who havent got jobs working with kids as it must be very hard for them imo.

I have tried to change the subject numerous times now and havent engaged on that thread subject again but you seem intent on following me on every thread to say I am ridiulous.

I didnt say my kids was slang for my daughter but it is often here you say since I have had kids.... etc rather than since I have had my child. You will find that is quite common in some areas and I was hardly hiding things as I talked in depth on that thread about not being able to afford any more kids and discussed having one daughter when I was talking about choices.

On this thread I do think that going in to schools and doing stuff is important as I live in an area of high teen pregnancy and deprevation. I do think it makes a difference to go in and talk properly about sex and relationships especially in areas where you dont get that at home and also even though they say they do it now I still dont think its sufficient.

That is just my experiences though and is from working with teen parents on a life skills class (it was my job to look after their kids). They studied personal finances,sex and relationships etc. They were all 16 and even though they all had kids you would be surprised how naive and factually incorrect they were about some things also relationships and what normal was within that was hard for them to grasp due to their pasts. On vezzies point during this time period and running these 10 week classes I learnt a lot and feel the teens did too. I was only listening in but by having the chance to talk about these things I think helped with those teens confidence and their ability to challenge things they didnt like or think was acceptable.

Again even though I do not think all porn or the sex industry is bad I still think it is detrimental for all children to see it or access material that might be extreme. If there was a way in which they could stop it on the internet then I would be happy to see that. With the ISP thing though I know it is possible to use fake isps (though I dont understand it fully). I do believe that due to the intense saturation of porn and drugs that it is best to educate but then again it may be living in certain areas that have shaped my views on this.

Sorry for long post and as I said I dont want anyone to be offended or upset. Its not my intention at all.

[Sakura]

NO I didn't misunderstand sunny, even though you're trying to twist my words which is something I cannot stand.

YOu said you had 1 daughter, and I said that was strange because on another thread you said you had KIDS.

Then you said, no you had 1 daughter and 2 miscarriages.

Then I searched the other thread and found at least 2 posts with you saying "Since I had kids..." "My kids.."

Then you said, "kids" was slang for "my daughter" where you live.

ANd you told me that I hold the views I do because I had a privileged upbringing

Err, nope.

So then you said I must find raising children hard because I hadn't been around them growing up.

Err, nope.
I'm the eldest and only girl of five children with a FT working mother. I'D say I changed more nappies growing up than you.

THe point is you do not engage with the argument, and you twist my words, which is something I cannot stand.

[claig]

I agree with dittany that porn is corrupting.

I disagree with Sunny about the importance of sex education and I think these BBC sex education programs make the problem of exposing children to sex amd porn even worse.
I agree with right-wing thinking that they only encourage children to experiment more and stir children's interest in seeking out porn.

I think Sunny's views on this are in fact the mainstream politically correct views, which are that we need more sex education, practically mandatory, at ever younger ages in schools and that children should discuss all aspects of sex openly and this would involve discussing pornography. I think this will increase their interest in porn. I think these liberal policies are misguided, but they are the mainstream ones condoned by society.

These mainstream views do nothing to combat the spread of porn, because they accept porn as a norm, as Sunny does, and then want to educate children about the porn that exists.

I agree with dittany that porn should be stopped at source, it should be restricted and legal measures should be taken to do that. I believe that sex should not be so openly discussed everywhere as it will force cchildren to become more interested in it than if they had not been exposed to discussing it at an early age.

I think Sunny's views on sex and porn are really just the mainstream society's views, the views that are reflected in the politically correct BBC3 TV sex education programmes that Sunny thinks are good.

[HerBeatitude]

Yes we tend to use the term "grooming" now as a more modern version of "corruption". I guess because corruption implies no reversal of the process.

[vezzie]

Discussing, sharing feelings - to what end?
Just to give them a chance to share?
To tell them what healthy relationships are like, maybe - which is what?
To manage sex in their own lives positively, perhaps - which is how?

What I am trying to get at is that you seem to be making assumptions about what the outcome of good communication with teenagers would be, but how can you assume that we know what you mean or that anyone would agree with you when we have so much we disagree on?

More generally, I feel that there is a lack of analysis, a blandness about values and ideology which is at the heart of where we differ. You are dynamic, educated, focused and when you have a point of view (like about materialism, or about the importance of early years to a child) it sounds good to hear you express it, whether or not I agree. When you don't have a proper point of view, just acceptance and self-contradictory shrugging ("everything is fine" + "you can't change it") it sounds really depressing and it makes me sad. I am arguing with you because you are young and clever and have energy and when you just accept, when you talk as if there is a mainstream consensus that it makes no sense to challenge even in theory, when you talk as if there is no point in even naming or recognising the consensus because it is a fact beyond analysis, it makes me feel as if opportunities are being lost, everywhere, for everyone.

[sunny2010]

Herbeatitude - yes I have tonight. Its very similar to the sex education show series on channel 4 that was on recently. I think with the porn being accessed by teens it is more important to address these issues. I think discussing the media and mainstream porn is important as teens have the chance to discuss what they have seen and any issues raised from it.

I already said I agree with parental locks and hiding soft core porn from teens. I still agree with not allowing teens access to computers without an adult watching. I would welcome moves to have porn sites that could only be accessed by adults but I dont know if this could realistically be achieved as I said before.

[HerBeatitude]

That's all well and good Sunny, but have you listened to the programme and how does it address the swamping of our children's consciousness with porn?

[sunny2010]

You can talk to teens about what they have seen in mainstream porn and their thoughts and feelings. If they have questions etc. You can talk with ones who have issues with their body image and this would include boys. Everything to do with sex and masturbation that would actually be relevant to them. Discussing the media and any negative/positive feelings relating to that. People who have had children very young coming in and discussing how they found it. Especially in areas where many teens choose to have a child at a very young age and then realise the realities.

Ones who dont have a good model for relationships etc at home can have chance to recieve support and help etc. All about aspects of relationships/marriage/cohabition. Discussing abuse, discussing what is dysfunctional in a relationship, having confidence and self esteem, valuing themselves as a person. Discussing about gay relationships, step families etc. Could be done in a variety of ways but always treating the teen as a person.

All important to the emotional development of teens and in many areas still all largely ignored by the school system.

I think it is very important personally and having a lot of friends who havent had the greatest home lives, ones who have been in the care system, ones who dont have good models at home or even ones who just have questions relating to sex, relationships and their own perceptions of these answered by an impartial person. I especially like the idea of this in areas with a high level of family breakdown and ones with chaotic homelives. I do see it happening with some youth groups here and you can see how well respected the youth workers are who treat the teens in this way.

[vezzie]

Sunny I didn't miss the bits where you said all those things about how people should engage with teenagers, but I did miss the bit where you said to what end. It's not clear to me what you want to achieve by communicating well with teenagers - what the actual messages are. Is it just don't get pregnant and don't get infected? Or is there more to it?