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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism chat thread

1001 replies

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 25/09/2010 10:46

Hello

Been saying for ages that it'd be nice to have an area for just saying hi, letting off some steam and sharing the little things that don't warrant a whole thread.

So, I'll start...

My brother made me :o:o:o last night when we were talking about some crap sexist song. And he said (in all honesty) - well this is just one of the millions of ways the patriarchy keeps itself going.

Also got the updated email from the Feminism in London conference this morning - can't wait.

Anyone else?

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swallowedAfly · 21/02/2011 18:22

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swallowedAfly · 21/02/2011 18:23

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SardineQueen · 21/02/2011 18:28

No it would be fab. My DH would look after the kids while we went off somewhere Grin

HerBeX · 21/02/2011 19:03

Can I dump my kids with him and come too?

SardineQueen · 21/02/2011 19:13

Yes of course.

I would like a commune with an indoor pool please Grin

swallowedAfly · 21/02/2011 19:15

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swallowedAfly · 21/02/2011 19:16

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SardineQueen · 21/02/2011 19:16

Well you'd need to screen obv.

I wouldn't want to go and live with a load of randoms Shock

swallowedAfly · 21/02/2011 19:18

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Unrulysun · 21/02/2011 21:35

We're about to get to 1,000 posts here. We could make the next thread our commune - one with a gatehouse for SAF and a pool obviously and a luxury spa and hot masseurs Grin

FlamingOBingo · 21/02/2011 22:56

Gah! Missed loads again and not enough time to catch up!

Have skim read and see you are discussing communes. A friend of mine lived on a commune for a while (not a free love one, I don't think!) and said it was a bloody nightmare with all the rules etc.! Certainly not what they're cracked up to be.

Prolesworth · 21/02/2011 23:01

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FlamingOBingo · 21/02/2011 23:04

Woohoo!

And I am dead excited because I have a plan! Well, a plan-ish, anyway Grin

Prolesworth · 21/02/2011 23:05

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HerBeX · 22/02/2011 00:10

I once lived in a commune

The rules were very vague

It was in Germany

There were no locks on the bathroom door so people came in when you were in the shower/ bath and did a wee and in one terrible case, a poo.

I was traumatised

Grin
HerBeX · 22/02/2011 00:11

I vote for locks on the bathroom doors, at the risk of being perceived as English and Uptight

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 22/02/2011 00:20

Helloooo this thread is going to run out soon. I'm feeling like a dirty lurker as have been really enjoying the discussions but not had the time to really join in!

Whoever made the point(s) about how the "traditional" family makes supportive circles around the man, rather than the mother/baby - Shock that is so true. How bloody clever to have diverted all that care/attention/focus onto men (who are adults and can look after themselves) from babies (who are small and helpless and therefore in need of all that nurturing).

A bloody cheek, I call it.

Might start the new thread in readiness. :)

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sakura · 22/02/2011 00:38

Yes, I value privacy too. So there are definitely negative effects to living in a commune. That's not my idea of utopia.
BUt what would be nice would be lets say it being completely normal for two platonic girlfriends to live together, and help each other raise their children, while the fathers come and go. Or two cousins, or two or three sisters. Or a mother and daughter, or a even brother and sister etc....

Unruly I remember a thread on MN where a woman started a thread because her health visitor told her three weeks postpartum "You need to be thinking about having sex again" Confused
ANd people on here were actually debating whether or not this was reasonable. What kind of selfish git of a man would be concerned about penetrative sex when his partner has just given birth?????

sakura · 22/02/2011 05:48

From "The Neutered MOther"

"The fathers'-rights movement picked up the banner of gender neutrality and turned it to their rhetorical advantage in the custody area. They effectively criticized child-custody rules and decision making for manifesting what they perceived to be a "pro-mother" bias."

Their attacks seemed all the more forceful because of the equality reforms that were being implemented in response to the economic consequences of divorce. Male backlash to family law reforms, and the liberal feminist gender-neutral rhetoric it appropriated, helped to set the stage for challenges to custody rules and processes of decision making that relied on the positive aspects of Mother

Most state statutes now specifically provide that both parents are "equal," thus forbidding consideration of gender in custody cases.

Both the liberal feminists and the fathers'-rights groups undermined the earlier acceptance of MOther as being something distinct from, separate, and perhaps, superior to the generic term "parent." In place of the maternal presumption, custody arrangements that formally equated parents, such as joint custody, were proposed and defended on the grounds of furthering equality between the sexes.

"Shared parenting" was the objective, and custody and visitation rules were manipulated to facilitate this ideal. SOme commentators went so far as to assert that gender neutrality required that considerations of "typically MOtherly" characteristics I presume means giving up your career, getting up in the night and soothing children be eliminated from judicial consideration. Others extended the equality goal to its most extreme limits in the suggestion that custody disputes be resolved by a toss of the dice "

What has resulted is a legal system that empowers fathers....Joint and legal custody gives rights and responsibilites to mothers, but it gives rights without responsibilites to fathers"

As someone whose career took a nosedive the second I conceived, who carried and birthed!!!! babies in agony, I find this line of thought stomach-churning. To me, it epitomizes the notion that women are to be seen as baby machines and nothing more.
I really feel that society must respect the biological contribution that women have made, not devalue it by pretending that fathers and mothers have an equal stake in children. It doesn't necessarily make a mother a better parent than a father, but it must be taken into consideration.

sakura · 22/02/2011 06:00

In other words, like they always do, men used something that was supposed to further the rights of women to their own advantage. LIke when Greer mentioned that more men than women complain to the Equal right's commission.

swallowedAfly · 22/02/2011 07:13

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swallowedAfly · 22/02/2011 07:16

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HerBeX · 22/02/2011 07:41

Oh tell me about it.

The separation of maintenance as an issue from contact as an issue, is a way of ensuring that deadbead dads (or deadbeat parents, I suppose we have to say now, even though 90% of NRP's are men and women who are NRP's are more likely ot pay maintenance than men are unless they're in jail) don't get held to account fro their irresponsibility.

It just seems to me that if you don't understand that one of the basic obligations of being a parent, is to financially support your child, then what the hell else don't you understand about beinga parent?

swallowedAfly · 22/02/2011 07:46

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HerBeX · 22/02/2011 07:52

Those questions are never asked because it would entail men being expected to behave reasonable and being held accountable for their bad behaviour.

And that very rarely happens.

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