Rape within marriage

[tabouleh]

Yes unashamedly a thread about a thread.

It is like entering the bloody twilight zone over there.

Jeez there are MNers basically caring more about OP's husbands right to sex rather than believing OP and helping her.

Totally understand if this gets deleted for being a thread about a thread - but if it gets more of the feminist viewpoints onto that thread then great.

"however,she is not a "rape surviver"in the same sense that most people would use.
she was raped by her husband.
she was in no personal danger and had no fear of being injured or worse.
i rather suspect a woman raped by a stranger on a dark night would be insulted by you exuating the two............
and,humour..........."

this is because some people in society still cant see that rape within marriage is the same as any other rape.
if a stranger puts he s penis inside someone without the persons consent-this is rape.
if a husband puts hes penis inside a wife without her consent-this is rape.
fgs-it dont matter who the person is whos doing the rape-rape is rape.

does it matter that someone might be in no personal danger?

well-when someone feels it is a ok thing to put he s penis inside someone when they dont want it-not only have they crossed a line-
but because that line has been crossed-they can think that its ok to carry on doing this and also crossing other lines.
so-someone may very well be in personal danger.

i was raped by a stranger and i was also raped by my [then]husband.
there was no diffrence-they both had the same outcome-i felt like shit.
i felt small-i felt like a "thing"i felt scared-i had low self esteem.

as for humour-i didnt get youre "joke"
my husband used to "joke"that i was "brought and paid for"[because he had paid for the marriage cert]-and he really believed that he owned me.
no one will ever understand how that made me feel!

aligrylls - I was very rude to you and I was a bit over the top but I was very angry at your husband's jocular tone. This is a serious thread and it wasn't appropriate. As he later realised once he actually read the thread. I was raped in very similar circumstances as the OP - the only difference was that I wasn't married to the man who raped me nor was I in a long term relationship with him. But people still told me I wasn't really raped and I found that very, very difficult to deal with.

That's why I found your husband's posts so upsetting.

Butterfly thanks for that post. I really hope that Anchor's DH just either didn't hear a firm 'no' and thought (misguidedly) it was worth a try, and not that he was being violent and thinking only of his own urges. Hope Anchor feels able to come back to the thread. If you're reading, if you were able to tell us how your talk with DH went it would help others as well as you to make sense of this kind of situation.

marantha wrote - "Men DO need sex"

No they do NOT. Men WANT sex. Need and want are not the same.

TheButterflyEffect, you know it seems like a woman cannot win in this situation.
She freezes in order to avoid 'worse' but by doing so, she gives the attacker reason to say, 'She didn't fight back'.

My belief is that the vast, vast majority of women who claim to have been raped are telling the truth - however, with the 'freezing' issue, you can just see how difficult it is for a person to be convicted of it (rape).
If a juror says, 'She didn't fight back' and then interprets this as compliance, you see the difficulty.
I can see how a woman would 'freeze' but can everyone?

Need sex/want sex whatever- as long as they don't force anyone else into it, I don't really care about the distinction.

Butterfly

"It can be very hard to say no outright as we're so protective of our husbands' egos etc."

yy, totally agree. I think it is difficult if a man is growing frustrated at not having had sex in a while, for the woman not to feel guilty. I do, and it doesn't help the situation because I feel more pressured, so my decision to have sex feels less empowered iyswim. I don't want to feel like I'm doing DH a favour! It tends to be better if we're having more frequent sex as DH is less 'desperate' (don't think he'd like that description )

Sassy - no i wouldn't want to see your scenario convicted. i would want the message about what is acceptable sexual behaviour to get through to people so that the incident didn't happen in the first place
I think this is the crux of the problem. It seems that many posters here want verbal consent to have sex on each ocassion it happens.

Most people irl don't want that.

What right have you lot to impose your view on everyone else?

How often do we actually just outright say "no" anyway, especially with DP/H and family? Do you fancy scrambled eggs? No. - hardly ever happens and it seems rude/unfriendly. it's always "not really thanks" or "maybe later" or "I'd rather not".

Yes, E&M - but most people have complex relationships where sex is part of a whole mix of things. Most of us know our partners intimately, and can guess at what would be acceptable to them. I think loads of women and men would be prepared to try and initiatve half sleepy sex, and none of them would consider it to be rape.

SS - what?

You are assuming that many posters want verbal consent every time, and then accuse us of trying to impose views on other people?

the vat majority if not all posters are saying that participation is a sign of consent. They are also saying that if there is any doubt - if the partner seems passive or uninterested or just tired for example - that verbal consent is a quick and easy way to gauge whether or not sex is wanted.

Honestly, you would think speaking was really difficult or something, most people talk to their partners all the time!

*vast

prolesworth
thankyou-
well-all this happened a long time ago and ive moved on since then.
but what is sad is-these things are still happening in society.
and some in society still have the same thoughts that was about years ago.

marantha
well-thats a problem-there is a distinction.
when society stops thinking that men need sex
then they will stop making exuses for men that harm women.[or other men]

Proles tbh you're just using not-so-nice language to describe the same thing, surely? Some people wanting early morning sex can't be arsed with foreplay, morning breath etc, and are happy to crack straight on to the main event. Not everybody, but some people.

Ok - "initiating sex".

for me this means touching, stroking, kissing, starting to undress each other etc.

for some people it obviously means straight up "starting to have sex".

IMO the first is acceptable when sleepy, tired etc, unless the partner moves away/moves your hand away/tells you to stop etc.

The second is assault/rape. If someone is unconscious, they cannot consent. I would give a possible exception if the other partner has stated that s/he enjoys waking up during sex, as might be the case with your DH. Personally I would hate it, and assuming someone who is asleep is available for sex is a pretty slippery slope.

I described a scenario of half sleepy sex with DH, and I think a number of posters told me I raped him!

To avoid it being classed rape by postes here, it is suggested that I should have asked him - that is, other posters are trying to impose a rigid standard on DH and I. It is not their place to do that, and unreasonable to describe my behaviour as rape.

Personally I would hate it, and assuming someone who is asleep is available for sex is a pretty slippery slope.

But that is your perogative E&M - but it's unreasonble to tell everyone else to feel like you.

sparky159 Yes, fair comment, I see what you mean. Thought about and accepted your point of view.

I once woke DH up with a blow-job. He said it was the best birthday presnt he ever had If he woke me up with oral sex I'd be horrified I think he knows this, but he's never tried - hopefully my general sexual communication would make him aware that it wouldn't be something I'd like, whereas I felt pretty confident he would like to be awoken by a blow-job.

It's about knowing each other's boundaries, isn't it, which is about regular communication. If sexual communication breaks down, one partner might end up feeling incomfortable. It doesn't make it abuse. It's why trust is so important in a relationship, and there are huge grey areas of compromise before an abuisve situation is reached.