Is it easier to be a feminist if you are a lesbian?

[PosieParker]

Or are there really men out there that hold feminist values dear too?

Last night my DH said he called someone at work a 'pussy', I nearly choked on my food, since when is such language okay? Whilst my DH can be quite laddish and very far from feminist values I was attracted to him because he's quite masculine. I often wonder whether a more progressive and less Neanderthal man would get my attention or whether I'd find him to emasculated?

um, well i dunno about the lesbian thing, i dont imagine so though. given how mysoginistic behaviour isnt an exclusive male domain.

but with regards to having a DH that holds feminist values dear too, i have one. and he is not emasculated in any way i promise :)

I think not

heterosexual women have a perspective on gender relations that homosexual women cannot share, and vice versa

it is eaier to be a feminist if you are a woman though, I think

I'm not sure "not being a misogynist" qualifies a man as a feminist tbh. Just a decent bloke who behaves as we should expect all human beings to behave - with respect and maturity

I think a genuine 'male feminist' is a rare creature

thanks, I was worried that people may find my OP offensive, it wasn't meant to be.

I wonder if men that are more equal are the more academic or intelligent ones.

I think there are a lot more female feminists than male ones, so you've probably got a better chance of a feminist partner if you're a lesbian.

But I think my DP for instance would probably call himself a feminist, although he still doesn't quite get why humanism doesn't cover it. He's stuck on the idea that if he's a "feminist" it excludes being e.g. an anti-fascist, or against racism. He's slowly getting it though. I think it's hard for men to get it in a way if they don't hold sexist attitudes, because they don't have those issues to confront in themselves, and at the same time their invisible privilege means they are not forced to confront them day to day as women are.

My dh would call him self a feminist and a humanist too.

He has seen the way negative beliefs about women and what we are capable of have held me back.

We have a 4 year old dd and I nearly cried a few months ago when he said 'hmm, she's getting older now, we'll have to start teaching her about sexual politics and the womens' movement.'

I know quite a few very lovely blokes who are not sexist and live in an equal realtionship with their other halves, however I do fear that I live in a bit of a bubble full of right-on alternative types...

I do think that most fellas are all right providing you make it quite clear what shite you will tolerate from them, however I think about 40% of men are arses, because they are trained / raised to be so.

I have seen a few intelligent aware women fall into the trap of letting their man treat them like it's the 1950's cos they lurve him though...

My Dh is a feminist, and often finds himself challenging the misogynistic banter that is so common in the area he works in. He hates it, and does speak up. They think he's mental for not calling everyone 'cunts' and talking about women as objects only good for sex and cooking.

I'm dead proud of him!

I am hetero and my feminism is not primarily motivated by my sexual orientation. Other hetero women will put sexuality much more centre-stage. I believe the same variation applies to lesbians.

I think a man can be a feminist at home. Bearing in mind the stereotypes, ridicule and contempt that female feminists have to overcome, I expect it would be hard for a man to publicly declare himself a feminist. Access to feminist and women's spaces and networks would be limited. In public, I think he would be accepted more as a feminist-sympathiser than a feminist.

I've always thought that men who believe in equality between the sexes are more intelligent, by definition, because they have a better idea of what is right.

PosieParker - just what does 'emasculated' mean? Sounds to me like you have fixed views on gender which is a terible shame.

I generally think that dh shares many of my views. He is certainly not misogynist and we have a lot of role reversal in our lives (he is a SAHD, does all the domestic chores etc). Sometimes though that's because I feel them so strongly I can't imagine how on earth he could take a different line. Which has occasionally led to conflict. For example we had a bit of a row about that thread with the 18 year old and the 12 year old (the one who pretended she was 16 on Facebook and ended up being raped in a park). He got upset because he thought I was intimating that our dd might in future get into this sort of trouble, and that I didn't argue fairly when I brought up the (fairly minor) sexual assault I experienced when I was 12.

So I think it can be difficult for a man to understand where a woman is coming from when she is talking about an experience that he hasn't had, or imagined/feared having, and that can be a barrier.

That's an interesting point, earwicga. So, Posie, does that mean that you think that men are only sexy if they think women are inferior to them and treat them as such?

Do you mind me asking a very, very personal question, TBE? Does your husband know you are a lesbian? What does he think? Is he accepting? I assume he must be or someone who appears to be as strong as you wouldn't still be with him! Please tell me to fuck off if I'm being too intrusive!

I suspect it's quite hard to have a truly equal relationship full stop. I know I find it hard not to take advantage of my dh at times and vice versa. Slightly differently than manyt couples perhaps - I take advantage of dhs domesticity to be very lazy, whilst he takes advantage of my money at times, behaviours which upset both of us. People are an odd mixture of selfish and selfless I guess.

I am quicker, mentally, than my husband. Not more intelligent, just better at thinking on my feet, and changing priorities quickly. Hence, if I wasn't careful, I could easily take advantage of him in arguments etc. Our relationship isn't equal in that sense.

However, none of our inequality is due to our sex. Just to do with different abilities etc. I could control DH very easily in arguments...but he earns the money and could control me with his money if he wanted to! We're equal because we take eachother equally seriously and respect eachother and the contributions we make to family life - monetary and otherwise - equally.

Yes - and now I've turned the computer on and got involved reading it again, I can't turn it off and get on with what I need to get on with!

Well, I've always thought it sort of inconvenient that I'm not a lesbian, because if I was it would be easier to fall in with my Marxist idea that we should break down marriage and create a society where women live in groups where men come and go (or not, if you're a lesbian)!

I've always had very close female friends and never envisaged marriage as part of the plan. I just wanted to live with my best friend in a flat. I did live in a flat with 2 friends abroad for a year and that was the best year of my life.

Anyhoo..I have ended up as a SAHM, which has nothing to do with my DH and everything to do with the fact my identity as a mother takes precedence over my identity as a wife or as a company employee. I'm still BF my 1 year old but I'll be going back to work soon hopefully. And that's where the problem comes in isn't it. It's children!

If I hadn't wanted children I'd never have married. I've never been unfaithful to DH because I'd be so hurt if he did that to me, but I find monogamy difficult.

Greensleeves I completely agree that a 'male feminist" is a rare creature.

I think David Mitchell is a feminist, judging by his writing and comedy clips but I doubt he'd ever describe himself as one, and he probably doesn't know he is one. I think Dostoyevski was one and a few other writers. Obviously John Mills etc

OTOH Self identified male feminists seem a bit scary to me. "Look, I'm a FEMINIST!" and then they start mansplaining all over the place.

Sakura - did you watch that C4 prog about Dawn Porter learning about free love? It's on 4OD - you should watch it!

oooh, no what's it about? What's 40D. I live abroad. Can I get it?

oh, free love, obviously. Sorry I'm a dinasour when it comes to the internet. I don't know what twitters all about.