So it would appear this topic is the Millwall of Mumsnet

[GothAnneGeddes]

Nobody likes us and we don't care.

I have to admit I lurk more then I post here, but to me, it's great being able to have everyday things discussed through a feminist lens, especially as most feminist websites are so US-centric.

It's just such a shame that so many women don't think that feminism is relevant to them. I just don't understand it.

Ah okay - thanks for explaining TBOM

My pleasure, LB

avril, I am not going to speculate on Starlight's motives for starting that thread. That really is bad form - talking about another poster rather than just asking outrigth (incidentally, if that is what you think, why have you not said that on the thread in question?)

but honestly, i think you are reading too much into it.

I took it as a reminder to not click on a thread that looked interesting, as it would make difficult reading for someone in the SN world.

I am not feeling low/vulnerable, so I, of course, clicked

and soon hid it, tbh, as yes, I did see a load of SN bashing. Starlight's (very valid) posts were ignored, shouted down as rubbish, and made out to be irrelevant. and what she was trying to do was put across a SN viewpoint (as were others)

I have a lot of sympathy with TheBossofMe's points on here. There are some threads where you get people effectively shouting "False consciousness, Comrade" basically to shut posters up.

I sympathise in a way, having done the equivalent myself at meetings when I just can't be arsed to go through a whole argument again with a new person. But its not great in terms of open discussion.

Having said that, I lurk more than post mostly because the threads go too fast given that I'm not at my computer that often.

Op back again.

Didn't start this thread to cause a ruck, just to express my surprise that this topic was mentioned so much in the "Mnet threads you hate" thread.

There is a lot that's good about this section. I understand that to some it seems like there's a party line, but I think that's because the same posters post a lot, but that's because ther're so passionate about the subject. I think a lot of us need to delurk and participate more.

ISNT I don't want anyone to stop posting or alter their posting style. Absolutely not.

This thread is about why people are put of using this area of MN. I was put off after it was suggested that my personal brand of feminism was not good enough (on a couple of threads) and on the DV thread itself that I was an apologist for and supporter of DV.

I wanted to be specific about my reasons rather than express a general view of a general perception of this board. If I have offended anyone by being to specific then I apologise.

My comments were in no way intended to suggest that anyone be censored and frankly I am suprosed you interpreted them as such. However like it or not those are the reasons that I don't post, because I didn't venture onto the feminism boards to argue whether I am a "good feminist" I came on them to learn more about the issues.

I post in a way which attempts to view both sides of an argument, i might not agree with it but i acknowledge it. Which is why it seems i am often on the middle ground or making comments which may seem 'against' the popular view of the thread. I would like to think that for the purpose of discussion such views are important.

Actually having thought a little more about this - it is not rigerous debate or even confrontation that leads me to shy away.

If (for example) you think I am a crap feminist because for example I wear high heels/like having my arse spanked/rely on a man for money then explain why that is such a bad thing.

What really irritates me is the responses along the lines of "well it is just not the feminist way and if you don't understand why you are clearly a hopeless case and I cannot be bothered to explain".

but will try and look in again later since actually I am finding this quite interesting....

Bravo Starlight.

This is a very odd thread. People seem to be complaining about their issues with the feminist section, but there doesn't seem to be a common theme emerging over what the actual problem is.

It is just a whole lot of separate complaints.

Someone I know just sent me this.

'All it takes is compassion and kindness when disagreeing with someone you dont know. To treat another human being with anger and disrespect and rage in order to get what you want from them is the ultimate egocentric God behavior. It is so much kinder to allow grieving for a dream shattered and allow time to transition to another choice.'

I especially like the time to transition bit. So true. Sometimes it takes me years, sometimes it takes a second.

It was about all those things Starlight. It was also about the fact that because someone is disabled doesn't mean that they should not be held up to the same moral codes as the rest of us and that there is another aspect to the discussion which is as important. Everyone is bound to frame any news item within the prism of their personal experience - it's how we make sense of things.

I found the contributions of people who know about disability on the front line as it were, extremely interesting. And feel saddened that some people felt silenced - having read the thread I'm still a bit mystified as to why some people got so upset.

Most bizarre was that some people didn't think the Torygraph has an agenda - it was absolutely blatant in that article.

I think one of the issues might be that this section has lots of women who have made their minds up about each aspect of feminism, and come on here as some sort of campaign strategy to win over other women.

But I think that most women on here haven't made their minds up about each issue. That is why the idea of having a feminism FAQ is rather unworkable. We are not Object, or some other campaigning group with a certain set of aims.

Most of us are because we want to learn more from each other, and we want to think about things that happen in our lives and our society. A lot of things happening in society are new and need a new response.

So I can't really get my head around this idea that it is our responsibility to validate other people's ideas about whether or not they are a feminist or whether or not they should be involved in feminism. That is not what I am here for - I am here to discuss women's rights. Because I would like some space to do that, as I haven't had that space yet. But perhaps the internet will never be the space to do that, and we have to go back to having 1970's style meetings.