Eco-parenting and women's work?

[wastingaway]

Some interesting points came up on this thread, about whether eco-parenting and green living in general tended to create more work for women?

It was also suggested that in fact modern conveniences act to disguise the inequality in relationships.

As I sit contemplating the bucket of shitty nappies that I will be putting in the washing machine, I am wondering about this a lot.

What do you think?

still we can all still do our bit eh

I think it is a bit of a straw man argument to say that we don't all want to be smallholders. Nobody is saying that we should all do that. I hope I'm not sounding aggressive by saying so.

People in different parts of the country will need to live in different ways. Most smallholders in the past had another job as well as being a smallholder, so it isn't meant to be an alternative to other forms of work in many people's lives.

It is rather like Cuba's response to the oil crisis or Britain in the second world war. There will be a range of different responses that people can make. Living on a farm in a rural area is not more green than living in a small flat in London right by your place of work; different responses are appropriate in different locations and different people's lives.

It is the same with being vegetarian. I'm vegetarian but I am not advocating that the whole country does the same. Many upland ecosystems need animals to be grazed on them and someone has to eat that meat. It is just that the country as a whole needs to eat less meat. It makes sense for me to be vegetarian and for someone else to eat the meat.

I suppose I'm coming from the angle that if we are really to make a dent in this problem it will take the buy-in of the vast majority of the population. And that until crunch time comes, getting the buy-in of the majority of the population will mean presenting them with "green" alternatives that are cost effective and don't affect their lives too much. Or as takver says, can be "sold" as actually more fun/edifying than the non-green alternative.

My posts may not have come across like that though. I suppose for me a lot of this stuff is about being realistic. For eg the communal laundry idea - I just can't envisage most people going for that idea voluntarily. And what concerns me is that we should move as a society to "greener" ways of doing things before it is too late.

If we are all still carrying on like this and sitting on our arses when the oil runs out we're going to be screwed really.

I do feel positive though that things are heading in the right direction. How eventually the inequalities of standard of living across the world will be tackled is anyone's guess though (if indeed they are ever tackled at all).

To move this thread away from being upbeat, I don't think inequality will be tackled. Lots of people are going to die.

I agree with you.

re: communal laundry - have you noticed that it appears from tv that most american apartment blocks share laundry facilities in the basement. i don't know if this is true but if it is it is the only thing i can think of where the UK is more 'luxurious' and convenient than the US..

The apartment complex we lived in in the US had a laundrette. And a playground. And a pool.

That sounds lovely wastingaway.

funny when you think about it that a communal model of living would be a normal part of life in the US.

Some parts of the US. The places I see on TV mostly don't seem like that. (CSI etc. )

I defintely have learned about the whole shared pool/shared facilities type setup from somewhere though. Maybe it's in films more or something.

I would love a more communal style of living. I think it probably happens more in hotter countries - here we are all too busy hiding indoors.

it has occurred to me that if I clubbed together with some friends/family, we could between us afford a house with an indoor pool. Although it might be a bt crowded

ive been following this thread with inserest
its a good thread.

i live life quite frugally-1 because i have to really and 2 because ive never seen the point of materilistic things much.

i have a old telly but i dont watch it-but i let my daughter watch some of the kids proggrammes-

apart from our computor-i dont have none of this stuff like a i pod[ive never even seen one]

i buy second hand furniture-and i like getting things like old cuboards-i paint them and end up with unusual and colourful bits of furniture[at the moment im about half way through of painting a cuboard with a alice in wonderland scene for my daughters toys-but it has tooken me ages]

cos we dont rely on the telly-we have loads of books and games[i love old fashioned games]

if i was to be burgled-the burgler would come unstuck cos none of my stuff is worth more than two bob[except the computor]
but everything here has had a lot of care and thought put into it and its a very warm home[a lot of people think frugal means going without]

right heres the bad bit-
id like to grow my own veg but then i would have to buy a very large dog to keep watch-
as soon as people saw veg growing round here-theyd be gone.

i have to go to the supermarket-something i hate-
the shops near me are all boarded up so i have to get on a bus to the supermarket-
i then have to get a cab back[extortinate price]cos i have a disability.

primark is cheaper than charity shop for kids clothes[im in a poor area so everyone takes the piss]

i would like nothing better than to live in the countryside and try and be more self sufficiant-but i cant afford to[theres some irony there]

anyway-i feel that if we was to change things we have to change societys way of thinking-
people are too materilistic and people are fearful of living without mod cons[cons being the oppirite word i think]

also-theres so much violence and robbing and thats why some of these smaller shops aint about no more[the shops near me got done over so much they gave up]

so-i think its not realitistic untill other probs are sorted out

i dont know what the answer to this is but i can see that humans are themselves and each other up

[btw-i hope none of this sounds self rightgeos-im not-just sad and this is something close to my heart]

oh yeah-i forgot to mention-
when the first tower blocks was put up in london[i dont know about anywhere else]
they had communial washing machine room at the bottom.
and apparently-when the first flats was put up-this seemed like a womans dream-they had fitted kitchens and bathrooms and space-
[they didnt have this before]
but this dream ended up a nightmare for them-
they ended up isolated-and ended up going to the drs depressed-
[before this a lot of these women lived in slums but in this-a lot of times there was caring for each other-]
jolly ol dr death gave them "mothers little helpers"[in other words-shut the f up]
this was my mothers generation-and although her story was a bit diffrent-i saw how she suffered-she was a a fuckin wreck and died one aswell[god bless her]
actually-this probably makes no sense to you-but it does me.
as im writing this theres a lot going round my head-so this is all over the place-sorry-
omg-i think ive just seen what youre trying to say.im putting another thread up.

"as soon as people saw veg growing round here-theyd be gone."

I can see that happening
It's a shame that some people are so poor that they feel it's worth stealing veg from someone's garden, and yet everyone can afford a mobile and brand clothes. I think society has got its priorities wrong.
Without food we can't exist.

ISNT, you say it scares you to death to live off the land. YOu know what scares me to death? THe fact that I live in a country that depends on the slave labour of poor women and children in a far-off country, and that the only way the food they produce gets here is by plane. THat thought frightens me to death.

Well yes.

There is plenty to be scared about.

I would not wish my family to live or die on the whims of the weather, or to have the children turn to god only knows what survive if anything happens to us, either.

Did I say I'd be scared to death anyway?

I thought I said I'd hate it. I would hate it.

There's nothing wrong with that surely. Or are you saying there is? I'm not sure what your point is TBH.

There's an awfully big difference between Britain as a whole producing enough food to feed itself and every individual being self sufficient.

I think Britain being able to feed itself is pretty important.
The ash cloud was a bit worrying, and if the oil runs out, we'd be screwed anyway, even with sea imports.

no ISNT, sorry if my post sounded inflammatory you didn't say it would scare you to death, you just said you wouldn't like it.
I just meant that it's important that each country becmes self-sufficient somehow.

Yes absolutely swallowedafly. I used to go around switcing all the computers and photocopiers off at hometime in canary wharf, but I had to do it when no-one was looking otherwise I got a bollocking. Even at the weekend all the printers and everything were just left on. FFS.

When you look at where the energy is being consumed it is industry and other work environments where there is a lot of work to be done.

Then you look at your eco-cloths and you look at the latest oil being poured into the sea disaster and you look at all teh people starving around the place due to man-made situations and you just think what's teh bloody point.

I think for me (as I have mentioned) technology will provide the solutions for a lot of this - we don't have to become mega-luddites and all go back to toiling on teh land with nothing except horsepower to assist us, when we can harness other energy sources. And so on. I don't think the world can be "saved" by turning back the clock, as people just won't do it, until it's too late and they have to.

Whatever happens people will need to accept that they have less stuff, and understand that the only way we have all this stuff in the first place is because people are working as virtual or actual slaves in other parts of the world.

From the POV of feminism - well it's all interconnected - and the state we are in should be a concern to everyone, not just a "womens" thing for women to sort out. How can we sort out the worlds problems when in the main we're not the ones causing them? (Thikning war, corruption etc etc)

I hope we get another credit crunch, perhaps that's what's needed...
or do you think those in power will just let the plebs die

The crunch will put the brakes on the rampant consumerism of those in the middle. But it won't do much to change the ways of the people at the top, and it will bugger the people who are already at the bottom.

What's needed is a competely new way of doing things, and that can only be driven by the majority, and thus the majority need to be persuaded that change is desirable and required.

The people who are running things all around the world are driven by power and profit and that's why we're in such a mess. We need a more shared/co-operative approach.

Absolutely