Pride and Prejudice - in the view of 2026 society is Mr. Wickham simply a predator?

[mids2019]

So Lydia is 15 years old and to my (admittedly non literary mind) groomed by Mr. Wickham into eloping. Reading the book now it seems full of victim blaming with Lydia being blamed as much as Whickam for the inappropriate relationship. Is this too simplistic?

NoctuaAthene yes, Austen was portraying society as it was, not as she would have liked it to be.

One other interesting thing about Lydia’s characterisation is that she is completely unrepentant. Even Lizzy and Jane, who have known her all her life, assume that when she comes back to Longbourn after her marriage that she’ll be embarrassed, contrite. But she is the opposite - loudly talking about the circumstances in which the marriage took place, seeing the elopement as a ‘good joke’, chastising Mr and Mrs Gardner for being cross with her. I don’t think it’s as simplistic as portraying Lydia as responsible for her own downfall, but certainly Austen was making some kind of point that Lydia and Wickham are operating outside the norms of decent society.

That's VERY interesting, but I hesitate to judge older books by contemporary standards.

Seems to me that Catherine Morland was just 16 or so in Northanger. The sins at the time were the lies and greed, and that's more than enough.

Lydia is headstrong and capricious, and as such deserves some criticism.

But, as is pointed out throughout the book, she has been let down by both parents. She has not been schooled (Lady de Burgh is appalled that she had no governess), her behavior at house parties, and out and about is vulgar and rude, but she is indulged rather than corrected - gentle parenting Austin style? 😁
So - Wickham did not have to work too hard, in that Lydia was up for fun and a laugh.

On the other hand, his other victim, Darcy's sister, is carefully curated, is all that Lydia is not, and yet he managed to get her too!

Wickham definitely likes them young - Lizzie points that out. But he also likes money.

I thought that the whole Lydia thing was driven by Wickham's spite. He saw Darcy's interest in Lizzie and tried to scupper Darcy they Darcy had scuppered him. Is that not right?

Wickham likes them young.....

doesn't this in retrospect add a little bit of darkness to JA where many associate her with period drama and immaculate speech without a hint of sex? Lydia was headstrong, wayward, immature and liked men....many would say from a modern perspective she was in a n ideal situation to be groomed but obviously JA was just reflecting society at the time.

@mids2019 “without a hint of sex?”

There were extramarital affairs and adultery in Jane Austen’s books. JA never describes physical intimacy, but sex is heavily implied.

I think ‘likes them young’ was not unacceptable in that era- much older men took very young second wives, if they could afford them.

The disapproval re Wickham was more about him liking them young enough to deceive. He flirted outrageously with young and old, hoping to charm a Mama or a daughter with money.

If Wickham lived in 2026 he would almost certainly be a romance scammer - using dating apps, pretending to be wealthy, stringing along multiple women and getting them to send him money with a variety of stories about crypto investment opportunities, diamonds stuck overseas somewhere, hospital bills for his terminally ill child etc.

What if… what if…..

Me Bennett had been a youthful scoundrel, had seduced a young Mrs B who was of a lower station than him, had been forced to marry her and they are now living out the consequences with him as a recluse in his study and she behaving badly and getting drunk at parties? History repeats itself with Lydia and so they turn a blind eye to her because reprimanding her would be acknowledging their own mistakes and they would in effect be reprimanding themselves, which they can’t face up to.

My post at 07:44 has been hidden - I was suggesting a 2026 incarnation of Wickham would be a scammer - I have asked MNHQ to unhide it, it was nothing dodgy or offensive,

He was considered a predator by Jane Austen I believe . I think the book more fully blames Mrs Bennett for not protecting the daughter and being more concerned about getting her daughters married (which in turn blames society for being structured this way) and Mr Bennett for passively standing by while his wife behaved so badly. No one really comes out looking good apart from Darcy who tried to stop him. It's a nuanced portrait that could still easily happen today.

Jane Austin does not shy away from the dark side of humanity.

She definitely had a dark sense of humour!!

I agree. Mrs Bennett was weak but also amused and entertained by the antics of her youngest daughters. And as for Mr Bennett - oh so dry and laid back Mrs Bennett was quite right that he should get off his backside and get some introductions going. Upon re-reading recently my opinion of Mr B is that he is useless.

@DottysCollywobbles “Upon re-reading recently my opinion of Mr B is that he is useless.”

I agree! Mr Bennet was always retreating to his library instead of actually managing his family.

Well, I don't think that it's all that far from the truth, but without there being any need for secrecy or a shotgun wedding. We know Mrs Bennett is likely to be younger than Mr Bennet, possibly quite a lot younger, and we know that he married 'down' in class terms because he was (briefly) taken with her beauty, and that they'd clearly married before he realised was 'a woman of mean understanding, little information, and uncertain temper', to the extent that he avoids where possible socialising with his wife, or even sitting with her. They've been married 23 years and Jane is 22 at the start of the novel.

Lydia is her mother over again, but without whatever sense of self-preservation/ambition kept the young Mrs Bennet from shagging an officer. And yes, I think Lydia does remind Mr Bennet of his own youthful stupidity.

The ages are different now tho, as in at 15 she'd be much less of a child than now.

But yes he's a predator and Darcy should have spoken ip

Lydia was “out” - she was actively on the market for marriage - the whole activity of Mrs Bennett is getting her girls married.
Wickham is a scammer/groomer - he’d been after Georgiana Darcy already - although she had money and Lydia didn’t so he was only after Lydia for sex.
Lydia was daft as a brush
Mr And Mrs Bennet were bad parents - Mrs Bennett as daft as her favourite child and, like Lydia was focussed on a handsome groom in regimentals and “bagging” a husband, rather than thinking what an areshole he was. Mr Bennett knew his death would leave his family in dire financial straits but just sat about making sarcastic remarks and hiding in his library.
All of these things come together and lead to the elopement.

Mr Wickham liked exploiting girls that looked like women.

“Lydia was a stout, well-grown girl of fifteen, with a fine complexion and good-humoured countenance.”

"Miss Darcy was tall, and on a larger scale than Elizabeth; and, though little more than sixteen, her figure was formed, and her appearance womanly and graceful.

Interesting, I'd never picked that up when I was reading.

There's one word in your previous post (now visible) which is always automatically hidden. It rhymes with tiptoe.

What an interesting thread. The difference in life experience between the average British 15-year-old girl now and Lydia Bennett is very striking. She hasn't been to school at all and beyond being taught to read, write and do very simple arithmetic seems to have had next to no education. She doesn't read anything serious and probably has little general knowledge. She doesn't play the piano or sing, and I don't remember any mention of her embroidering or drawing or painting china or practising any of the other accomplishments with which genteel young ladies while away the hours and try to impress eligible men and others who might influence an eligible man to consider a particular young woman as a potential wife. She likes clothes and hats and balls and men and gossip.

A modern Lydia Bennett would be on Love Island* or trying to be an influencer. She'd probably do very well.

*Disclaimer: I've never watched Love Island so maybe this is nonsense.

Wickham is clearly viewed as predator. Elibeth comments "perhaps we should say Miss King is safe"

Yes Lydia is seen as silly and not as protected as she should have been. But that does notbin any way diminish the fact that wickham is a predator

He was driven by money, as his pursuit of wealth relied entirely on the manipulation and exploitation of vulnerable young women.

It's very difficult for us to think ourselves back into a world where the age of consent was not 16. As already stated on this thread, the age of consent for girls was 12, as it had been since 1275. It was increased to 13 in 1875 and to 16 ten years after that. Yes, you needed your parents' permission to marry if you were under 21 (in England) but if they were willing to give it you could be married at an age when many parents now hardly let their children out of the house unsupervised. (Thinking here of a neighbours' kid who didn't even walk to the bus on his own to go to school until he was nearly 14.)

This is quite an interesting overview of the history of the age of consent. https://cyh.rrchnm.org/teaching-modules/230.html