Pride and Prejudice - in the view of 2026 society is Mr. Wickham simply a predator?

[mids2019]

So Lydia is 15 years old and to my (admittedly non literary mind) groomed by Mr. Wickham into eloping. Reading the book now it seems full of victim blaming with Lydia being blamed as much as Whickam for the inappropriate relationship. Is this too simplistic?

Yes, huge numbers of people died in infancy and early childhood. Making it to 1 was a milestone, as was seeing your 5th birthday. But if you made it to adulthood you were in with a good chance of seeing old age.

Back in those days (and up to the 1950s/60s) many boys were sent off to school at 7. Sometimes younger.

I knew that but the maths doesn’t fit. When Bingley was 7 Darcy would’ve been 13.

The Bingleys were nouveau-riche - their father's fortune had been acquired by trade, and Charles is the first of them to purchase an estate. The Darcys were old money, so it's possible Bingley looked up to Darcy for this reason - as a model of how a gentleman should behave - something he would have had to learn.

I think B was 23 (said he moved to the area 2 years after his majority) and 5 years would be right - B 13 and D in his last year at school?

Yes, but the suggestion is that Bingley might have been Darcy's fag (a younger boy who ran errands, cleaned, cooked etc for a senior one). The relationship could be brutal and exploitative, but the fagmaster/senior boy was also responsible for the protection of his fag, so I suppose one could just about imagine a public-spirited Darcy protecting a much younger Bingley who was vulnerable because he came from new money...?

I mean, it's pretty unlikely, but so is the Darcy-Bingley friendship in general -- they're polar opposites as personalities, the age difference means they can't have met at university or been peers at school, plus Darcy is rather proud and unlikely to be much of an advocate for new money types, so in many ways it's unlikely they'd have frequented the same circles. But the fact remains that JA depicts them as close friends, regardless of the age, class and temperament gap!

They probably met in London society.

Bingley "had not been of age two years" when he rented Netherfield Hall. So he would’ve been 22 at the start of the novel.

There have been offshoot P&P books from every angle but this. Someone needs to write a backstory!

Going back to earlier points, I think Mrs B would have married young - partly because I think Lydia’s views on this come from her mother & partly because I think Mr B would have got over his infatuation on a longer aquaintance.

This means that if you want an even happier ending for Mrs B (& Mary) the timing would fit for a surprise baby (perhaps the result Mr & Mrs B celebrating that their financial worries were over). This would allow Mrs B to triumph over the Lucases (& Mary to moralise over Charlotte & Mr Collins’ presumption on feeling secure re Longbourn).

Mrs B’s age would also mean Mr G was quite young (under 10) when she married so I suspect he spent a lot of his childhood fishing at Longbourn as it would have been more interesting for a boy than Meryton. His prospects would have also improved as the brother-in-law of a gentleman & I suspect he was also suitably educated to capitalise on this (a real life example of this is George Stephenson, who was self-taught but made sure that his son Robert had an education).

Still not really much of an explanation as to why someone blue-blooded, haughty, status-obsessed and not that convivial would end up being friends with an enthusiastic, easily-pleased, bouncy Tigger type who is one generation away from 'trade'!

What does Darcy actually think of ghastly Caroline Bingley and Mrs Hurst?

Could be any number of reasons, really.

Darcy always wanted a brother and Bingley fits that
He likes what seems to be Bingley's hero worship
They hit it off at school and have remained friends

Bingley shows no fear or extreme deference to Darcy. He has impeccable manners and sense, two things Darcy values. He is not a fortunate hunter or seeking to use his friendship with Darcy for his own benefit. He is genuine and caring. He provides lively but not seamless or vapid conversation.

They both enjoy hunting and riding but do not seem to enjoy excessive gambling or womanising.

They are both in similar positions, both parentless and have responsibilities of a sister’s care.

@Turophiles “What does Darcy actually think of ghastly Caroline Bingley and Mrs Hurst?”

Darcy tolerates Caroline Bingley because of his friendship with Bingley.

I'm going to have to read P&P again, there is so much food for thought here.

As an aside, does anyone think that Colonel Fitzwilliam was gently warning Lizzie off making too much of his friendliness towards her?

He also sees a different side of them to Lizzy. Even Lizzy begins to like the sisters when they are looking after Jane (until the men arrive) - Caroline’s behaviour to Lizzy is due to jealousy. Darcy just sees 2 well-bred women who are attentive to him & v fond of Georgiana, which is useful as he wants to marry Georgiana to Bingley.

Yes, definitely. Lizzie certainly takes it that way, she wonders 'was that meant for me?' when he starts talking about younger sons having to marry money, and she very capably deflects the conversation with a light hearted comment about the going rate for an earl's younger son.

He was essentially saying 'I like you and you seem to quite like me, but it's a non-starter'.

Yes, he was. Colonel Fitzwilliam explicitly steers the conversation toward his financial limitations as a younger son, stating that he cannot marry whom he likes and must consider fortune.

I imagine that once she was established at Pemberley, she invited Fitzwilliam over and asked him to tell her all about Darcy when he was growing up. Fitzwilliam is an attractive minor character and I can see them being friends.

Without a doubt. He's being both practical and gallant.

Well, being cynical, being known to be Darcy's close friend and a regular visitor at Pemberley, would do a lot to make someone as new money as Bingley acceptable to other old money types with a suspicion of arrivistes.

I mean, I don't think Bingley does think that for a minute, but he doesn't need to be a fortune hunter for him (and more obviously his unpleasant, snobbish sisters, who like to forget their family money is from trade) to benefit from the association.

Mrs Hurst doesn't seem to have married particularly well (not only is Mr Hurst a bore, but a man of 'more fashion than fortune'), so presumably Caroline Bingley wants to do better than her sister, and she's not just doing her brother a favour by acting as his housekeeper at Netherfield, she's in it partly for Darcy or, failing him, other upwardly mobile matches.

She's an unpleasant character, absolutely, but I assume some of her ill-concealed horror at the shenanigans of the Bennets and the Gardiners' Cheapside address is a desire to distance herself and her siblings from their 'trade' roots. And routinely performing that horror in front of their most blue-blooded friend is her way of saying 'See, I'm at your level!'

Lizzy is far more socially secure than she is. The daughter of a landed gentleman (despite the entail), it doesn't occur to her not to walk three miles cross country to see Jane when she's ill at Netherfield for fear of it might make her look declassée or countrified in front of the Bingleys.

Well, being cynical, being known to be Darcy's close friend and a regular visitor at Pemberley, would do a lot to make someone as new money as Bingley acceptable to other old money types with a suspicion of arrivistes.

It would be to his advantage to observe Darcy and see how old money with polish behaves, as well.

I think Bingley’s immense likability stands him in excellent stead. It’s his greatest social asset.

Bingley’s easygoing, cheerful manners make him an instant favourite. This popularity makes his transition into a new neighbourhood seamless and ensures he is welcome everywhere.

Crispin Bonham-Carter had that quality of Bingley in spades. Immediately likeable and easygoing.

Bingley & Darcy could potentially have attended a tutor / small school like the one that Jane Austen’s father ran so met there. Or they could have met at a house party like Yates & Tom Bertram. Thinking of those two & some of the other ghastly rich men in JAs books (Mr Rushworth or Robert Ferrers) perhaps its not surprising that Bingley & Darcy get on so well.

Bingley does seem to be very uninfluenced by money both in his dealings with the richer Darcy & the poorer Jane & Elizabeth. It’s an appealing character trait not shared by most of the other characters in the book.