Odd experience trying to choose books for a non-reading young woman

[MsAmerica]

I recently met a hair stylist who I'd guess to be still in her late teens. Very cute, very chatty, but I was horrified by what she told me of her schooling. She basically didn't have much, although technically has a high school diploma. She also doesn't usually read, although she told me she's reading a self-help book and would like to read more, because she understands that it's a "good" thing to do.

So I thought maybe I'd try to bring something next time, and asked a forum for suggestions. I said I'd love to get her a few easy cheap paperbacks, good-quality fiction that she might really enjoy, not junk. And not fantasy. If it were a 30 year-old man, I might get him something like "Of Mice and Men" which has the advantage of being actual literature AND short AND with simple language. But it's too downbeat for a young woman just starting out. I couldn't immediately come up with anything except O.Henry short stories.

The first problem was although I said she was a working person in her late teens, I made the mistake of using the word "girl," and everyone in the forum started suggesting children's books. Several suggested fantasy, although I clearly said I didn't want that. (A few even chided me for wanting to give books to a non-reader at all.)

The second problem is that it really did turn out that everything I could think of would be more suitable for a young man, and everything seemed to be very downbeat.

Funny how much reading is gendered.

Just to be clear, are you buying this book for yourself or for someone else? And are you wanting to encourage reading or just make yourself feel good?

Personally I try to buy something the recipient will like, not something which I want myself or which enables me to brag about educating the plebs (whilst it sits gathering dust).

That should read One Day by David Nicholls.

But I think this thread has gone way past book recommendations now ...!!!

A non reader won't read it just because they have it from somebody. I was given books pvrr the years that held no interest for me and eventually gave them away.

That's true. But it doesn't work the other way round interestingly. I think women are more open minded.
I love reading but I had a phrase following illness where I completely lost the ability to concentrate. I built it back up by reading short stories and then Agatha Christies and murder mysteries (the John Osman books are good). And then reread all my Terry Pratchett's. I think the extended concentration you need to immerse yourself in a book can only be built up by reading. Which is why of you have lost that muscle (or never developed it) books that suck you into the plot very quickly are better. Its not that they are lesser as books. For that reason romcoms (Sophie Kinsella?), crime fiction, Margaret Atwood short stories, adult fiction are all good starting points.

But, people are weird about reading. I had a friend come round to my house and was looking at my bookshelves saying she really wanted to start reading, and literally asked for recommendations. So I was like "ooooh you should borrow this book, or try this book..." but then she was awkward, almost offended. I just think because it's tied with education etc in people's heads it's sometimes a.sensitive subject. Whereas if you already like reading, it's just sharing your enthusiasm. I would be wary about offending her accidentally.

I can't believe how many of you are putting the worst possible spin on a friendly wish to give a little gift.

As to my post that so irritated you:
I once turned a non-reader into a reader. I started giving him science fiction, like easy Ray Bradbury and then moved up from there. Eventually, he was reading Ivanhoe, which is a pretty big leap. But I saw him every day, and it took a long time. In this case, I won't be seeing her regularly, and I figure I only have one or two shots at it, so I'm thinking about it more carefully.

I gave him the Ray Bradbury not because he was male, but because IT WAS A BOOK THAT I WAS ABOUT TO DISCARD.
I don't want to give her fantasy because it's my personal opinion - and, amazing though it may seem to some people here, I am entitled to my own opinion, including about gifts - partly because I think too many people get stuck in fantasy, and partly because IF I WANTED TO GIVE FANTASY, I DON'T NEED YOUR SUGGESTIONS, BECAUSE I KNOW ENOUGH OPTIONS ALREADY.
And, in this particular case, she's a non-reader, so SHE HAD NO REAL IDEA OF WHAT SHE WANTS TO READ.

Hope you're happy.

Sorry, I disagree. I think it can be lovely to give someone anything, not even necessarily a book, that the giver thinks is delightful and wants to share.

In fact, that's a wonderful way to allow one's life to be broadened, rather than having people just stay in the same rut. It reminds of of websites saying, "If you liked THAT, then you'll like THIS."

I'm the one giving the gift. I get to choose. I hope you don't expect, if someone likes garbage, that I'm obliged to give them garbage.

How sad that seems to me - both the idea that a gift would embarrass you, and that even with someone close, you wouldn't feel confident buying a book to give as a gift. Mind you, the gift may not always be right - I've certainly been given clunkers as books that leave me baffled. But sometimes they're miraculously delightful. I was given my first Jane Austen as a gift, and it was probably the first 19th century book I ever had, and there would have been no expectation that I'd like it. But the giver thought it was important to expose me to that kind of book. It was life-changing, really.

As to gifts - don't bosses give their employees gifts where you work? Not even at Christmas?

Presumably I'd never know about it, just as she won't, and it's odd to me that your post sounds both paranoid and faux-innocent.

Since she doesn't read, neither she nor I have any idea what she'd like.

I agree. I do think women are more open-minded about reading. (Which is much politer than saying that men tend to be uninterested in women.) Maybe they had to be? I'm guessing that in "olden days" it was more likely that both the authors and subjects were masculine.

That's odd about the friend asking for recommendations, then backing off. Maybe she wasn't able to articulate what the problem was, and felt awkward because of that? I had a neighbor who sometimes just to spontaneously recommend something from her book group, and I had no problem politely saying, Thanks, but I don't read historical fiction.

Confederacy of Dunces - very funny and an easy read.

I've received lots of unwanted books from well meaning people over the years, it seems like as soon as you say to some people "oh I don't really read books" they make it their life mission to convert you. I've absolutely led some people on about my interest in reading books just to be able to make small talk, which is fine for the purpose of killing time but does sometimes lead to awkward follow up conversation when I have to admit that no, I didn't enjoy the book they lent me, I read a few pages and put it down.

Using myself as an example: I love history and archaeology documentaries, but I have zero interest in historical fiction. I really enjoy reading articles about engineering projects and space exploration, but I'm not interested in science fiction. I adore watching travel shows and learning about other cultures, but I absolutely do not care for stories where people travel to exotic locations. It's not a case that everyone will love reading novels once they find the right genre.

She should just go to a library alone and browse the books to see what she fancies. You could help her get a ticket if she doesn’t have one.

Using myself as an example: I love history and archaeology documentaries, but I have zero interest in historical fiction. I really enjoy reading articles about engineering projects and space exploration, but I'm not interested in science fiction. I adore watching travel shows and learning about other cultures, but I absolutely do not care for stories where people travel to exotic locations. It's not a case that everyone will love reading novels once they find the right genre.

Using the information you've given I'd say the problem is people giving you fiction when your interests are non-fiction.

So why not suggest they buy you non-fiction? You seem to be confusing “books’ with ‘novels’.

Why are you so aggressive? You still haven't explained why fantasy is so terrible other than people "get stuck in it" which is an odd thing to say (as if people don't stick to any other genre like romance or or crime thrillers) but also - this is a non-reader you're talking about. She's not stuck in anything yet.

And whilst you may think you have plenty of fantasy options I can almost guarantee from your snobby attitude that you haven't come across the books I want to suggest (Travis Baldree). They happen to be about fantastical creatures but "woman takes a seaside sabbatical, has a summer fling, hides a runaway slave, and revives a failing business" could take place anywhere with anyone at any time. You go on about "broadening her horizons" but you're coming across incredibly closed-minded yourself.

And YES, the person CAN tell you what she's like to read. Ask her what her other interests are. What does she watch on TV? What does she do in her spare time? What's her sense of humour like? If she watches trashy reality TV and enjoys a good mooch around a shopping centre she's more likely to enjoy a good holiday romance than she is Of Mice And Men.

If she does stage combat classes in her spare time and is part of the local reenactment group then maybe she'd prefer fantasy ( 😱) or an historical fiction (which I've seen you also don't read - why? Are you "stuck" in another genre or are you allowed preferences when others are not?)

I'm not saying you can't give someone something they haven't yet tried but you except they will like based on their current interests. I'm saying the gift is for the receiver - not for YOU. It should be something you genuinely believe they will like and want. It's not a chance for you to show off.

Its not "lovely" to give someone anything. I really dislike being given presents I have no want or need for, having to pretend I'm grateful, then work out what to do with it once the person has gone. This doesn't mean I'm not open to having my "horizons broadened" - just that I want someone to work with me, not on me.

You speak to her every time you have your hair done, she has spoke “at length” about reading and you have no idea of her or her interests?

Stop being lady bountiful and listen to some of the suggestions from posters who have experience of adult new readers, including suggestions for fantasy which is staggeringly popular at the moment amongst young women whether you like it or not.

I think you should stop trying to 'improve' her. It's really overstepping and condescending?

Yes, lots of Educating Rita and Pygmalion vibes.

Vaguely imagining the unfortunate hairdresser dressed to the nines in the Royal Enclosure at Ascot saying in cut-glass RP ‘Gin was mother’s milk to her!’

As to gifts - don't bosses give their employees gifts where you work? Not even at Christmas?

Not at anywhere I have worked. There might be an office Secret Santa, with a £5 or £10 limit to buy for a colleague.

But this woman isn't your employee. You are her customer.