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On toughness - toughest writers of all time?

109 replies

WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 16:38

With a view to adding to my TBR pile, I've been trying to think of the toughest, least sentimental female authors of all time, with an emphasis on midcentury to the present day.

The names which keep coming to mind are North Americans and Continental Europeans. I must have a blindspot for these fair isles, which must surely have their own tradition of stylistic toughness.

Help me out, please?

Who are some of the toughest, least sentimental British fiction and non-fiction writers - the ones who might be criticised as e.g. "cold", "heartless" etc because their style leaves space for the reader to feel their own feels

OP posts:
Kornvallmo · 11/08/2024 16:51

Can you name some of the Continental/North American authors you are thinking of?
Here;
Virginia Woolf, surely?
Elizabeth Taylor
Fay Weldon

cupcaske123 · 11/08/2024 16:58

Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
Zadie Smith
Sandra Cisneros
Svetlana Alexievich
Donna Tartt
Hilary Mantel
Joan Didion
Toni Morrison

Kornvallmo · 11/08/2024 17:00

Donna Tartt is American @cupcaske123 😉

Kornvallmo · 11/08/2024 17:00

So is Joan Didion (sorry)

WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 17:00

Thanks for this. I've heard of Weldon but not read her. Will investigate. Ditto Taylor, who is new to me.

Woolf - yes, tough, but too early for my purposes!

The names which came easily to mind were Hannah Arendt, Simone de Beauvoir, Simone Weil, Joan Didion, Susan Sontag.

Who are the comparable British philosopher-storytellers?

OP posts:
WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 17:02

Many thanks. I think only Zadie and Hilary are British?

OP posts:
cupcaske123 · 11/08/2024 17:02

Kornvallmo · 11/08/2024 17:00

Donna Tartt is American @cupcaske123 😉

Oh! She only wants British. Will add some more.

Kornvallmo · 11/08/2024 17:17

WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 17:00

Thanks for this. I've heard of Weldon but not read her. Will investigate. Ditto Taylor, who is new to me.

Woolf - yes, tough, but too early for my purposes!

The names which came easily to mind were Hannah Arendt, Simone de Beauvoir, Simone Weil, Joan Didion, Susan Sontag.

Who are the comparable British philosopher-storytellers?

I think things are more partitioned here between life and philosophy, I can't think of any British authors that write in the same way. Will follow with interest.

WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 17:19

Aha. Interesting. So it might not be so much that I've a blindspot, as that there may not be a comparable tradition of women's writing here. I wonder will someone else come along with some names...

OP posts:
cupcaske123 · 11/08/2024 17:20

A S Byatt
Angela Carter
Iris Murdoch
Doris Lessing
Pat Barker
A L Kennedy

CrossPurposes · 11/08/2024 17:20

Does Doris Lessing fit? Muriel Spark? The Driver's Seat is bleak.

WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 17:20

Can you mention any less philosophical life writers @Kornvallmo ?

OP posts:
Cattery · 11/08/2024 17:20

Henry James

Cattery · 11/08/2024 17:22

Sorry. Not female. Virginia Woolf?

HeadNorth · 11/08/2024 17:25

Muriel Spark comes to mind instantly. The Driver’s Seat has been mentioned and I will add Loitering With Intent - the inappropriately named Fleur is witty & bracingly unsentimental.

WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 17:26

Byatt - love; have read
Carter - I suppose she is tough in some ways, though I'd filed her under gothic
Murdoch - YES!!!!!!!! Why didn't I think of her? She's the exemplar. The Sea The Sea is my favourite, but I read most of her novels in my early twenties
Lessing - OFC! Why didn't I think of her? Again, I've read many of her novels
Pat Barker - good catch. The Silence of the Girls stayed with me
A L Kennedy - haven't read, but will investigate

Thanks so much. A redoubtable roster of Toughness.

OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 11/08/2024 17:28

Elizabeth Taylor’s short ghost story “Poor Girl” is very good, with an interesting twist.

WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 17:28

Embarrassed to admit that I've read zero works by Spark. I will remedy this, following your recommendations. Many thanks.

Now that you've all got me thinking, Edna O'Brien might belong here. Irish, but she became a Londoner. And she was, without doubt, from the School of Tough.

OP posts:
Kornvallmo · 11/08/2024 18:12

Oh, I thought Doris Lessing was South African!
I can't think of many British ones @WhisperTree Americans and Europeans are more my cup of tea.
Like Pearl Buck. Lionel Shriver.

CrossPurposes · 11/08/2024 18:25

Kornvallmo · 11/08/2024 18:12

Oh, I thought Doris Lessing was South African!
I can't think of many British ones @WhisperTree Americans and Europeans are more my cup of tea.
Like Pearl Buck. Lionel Shriver.

She was born to British parents in Persia and they moved to Rhodesia when she was a child. She moved to London in 1949. Her original surname was Tayler.

WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 18:26

I believe she started her life in Zim, but moved to England in her twenties and stayed here until her death.

I have a lot of time for Shriver's novels. Buck is another novel name for me. Thanks!

OP posts:
Elodie9 · 11/08/2024 18:30

Beryl Bainbridge ?

LiterallyOnFire · 11/08/2024 18:31

Diana Athill. Especially Somewhere towards the end.

WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 18:32

Oh, there's a name to conjure with @Elodie9 Adding to the list. Thanks.

OP posts:
TonTonMacoute · 11/08/2024 18:33

Elizabeth Jane Howard
Elizabeth Bowen
One of my faves Colette
Susan Hill, perhaps

I wouldn't say Penelope Lively was sentimental either.