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On toughness - toughest writers of all time?

109 replies

WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 16:38

With a view to adding to my TBR pile, I've been trying to think of the toughest, least sentimental female authors of all time, with an emphasis on midcentury to the present day.

The names which keep coming to mind are North Americans and Continental Europeans. I must have a blindspot for these fair isles, which must surely have their own tradition of stylistic toughness.

Help me out, please?

Who are some of the toughest, least sentimental British fiction and non-fiction writers - the ones who might be criticised as e.g. "cold", "heartless" etc because their style leaves space for the reader to feel their own feels

OP posts:
MorriganManor · 11/08/2024 18:33

Sarah Hall. Particularly The Carhullan Army.

WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 18:35

I've never gone there @LiterallyOnFire I will investigate

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heldinadream · 11/08/2024 18:47

Some great shouts above so won't repeat but must add Rebecca West. Her phenomenal, massive and delightfully readable book on the history and culture of what was then Yugoslavia, which I am a third of the way through (over 1,100 pages long), has shocked me into realising that I've never read any of her fiction which I intend to remedy ASAP.
Also one you may not have come across- I'm reading the first volume of her memoir, Mermaid Singing, currently and it is excellent- Charmian Clift.
Love a book thread OP. 💓
Oh and Rose Macaulay! I'm gonna think of more and more I know it, I feel the tingle of names appearing out of the mist...

WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 18:49

I read this! It is AMAZING. Adding her to my list.

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heldinadream · 11/08/2024 18:52

WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 18:49

I read this! It is AMAZING. Adding her to my list.

Which one, Rebecca West? I meant to add the title BTW for people. Black Lamb and Grey Falcon. It's astonishing isn't it? A total tour de force.

Pebbles16 · 11/08/2024 18:53

Definitely Fay Weldon. Brilliant writer. I studied her for my degree and then went on to read a lot more.

WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 18:53

Ooh the only one I know there is Rose McCaulay's What Not. A tad early for my purposes, but honourable mention.

Thanks for the new recs @heldinadream 🙌

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WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 18:57

I've lined up some Elizabeth Bowen and read a couple of short stories. Intrigued to read more.

I loved Collette as a teen. Eminently re-visitable.

Lively - good catch!

Howard - new to me. Thanks.

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WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 18:58

heldinadream · 11/08/2024 18:52

Which one, Rebecca West? I meant to add the title BTW for people. Black Lamb and Grey Falcon. It's astonishing isn't it? A total tour de force.

Sorry - I should have been using the quote function. I meant the Sarah Hall book. I haven't begun with Rebecca West yet.

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VosgesViper · 11/08/2024 18:59

TonTonMacoute · 11/08/2024 18:33

Elizabeth Jane Howard
Elizabeth Bowen
One of my faves Colette
Susan Hill, perhaps

I wouldn't say Penelope Lively was sentimental either.

Bowen was Irish, but yes, absolutely. No one else would describe a family watching their house being burned down in terms of a door ‘hospitably’ open upon a furnace, or write her brilliantly disruptive, chilly child characters.

I can’t recommend her more strongly. Start with The Last September, or The House in Paris.

Agree with Penelope Fitzgerald, Muriel Spark, Iris Murdoch, Hilary Mantel (Beyond Black is brilliantly, blackly cruel, if you haven’t read it, with a very cruel cameo from the ghost of Princess Diana). Jenny Diski, more in her non-fiction, maybe?

VosgesViper · 11/08/2024 19:03

WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 18:58

Sorry - I should have been using the quote function. I meant the Sarah Hall book. I haven't begun with Rebecca West yet.

West’s The Fountain Overflows trilogy is brilliantly vividly realised and morally tough-minded, though because the second two volumes weren’t finished and were put together by an editor after RW’s death, a couple of mysteries are left unsolved, and plots unresolved.

WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 19:06

VosgesViper · 11/08/2024 18:59

Bowen was Irish, but yes, absolutely. No one else would describe a family watching their house being burned down in terms of a door ‘hospitably’ open upon a furnace, or write her brilliantly disruptive, chilly child characters.

I can’t recommend her more strongly. Start with The Last September, or The House in Paris.

Agree with Penelope Fitzgerald, Muriel Spark, Iris Murdoch, Hilary Mantel (Beyond Black is brilliantly, blackly cruel, if you haven’t read it, with a very cruel cameo from the ghost of Princess Diana). Jenny Diski, more in her non-fiction, maybe?

So she was, so she was. But she moved here and stayed, didn't she? So Anglo-Irish / broadly British, I suppose. I intend to devote time to Bowen. Diski rings a bell too - Britain's Didion? Thanks for the recs @VosgesViper

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heldinadream · 11/08/2024 19:10

Sorry @WhisperTree I got confused, I tend to get very excited talking about books. 😂Lots of amazing recommendations on this thread.

WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 19:12

heldinadream · 11/08/2024 19:10

Sorry @WhisperTree I got confused, I tend to get very excited talking about books. 😂Lots of amazing recommendations on this thread.

Bless. Same.

I can feel a major new book haul approaching...How long will it take me to read them? Sigh.

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heldinadream · 11/08/2024 19:18

Thank you. 😊
I passed the point of wondering whether I could possibly live long enough to read everything I acquire years and years ago. I'll be 70 next year and in order to read all my unread books I'd have to live to about 500, and have a few eye replacements too.. 👀

WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 19:20

heldinadream · 11/08/2024 19:18

Thank you. 😊
I passed the point of wondering whether I could possibly live long enough to read everything I acquire years and years ago. I'll be 70 next year and in order to read all my unread books I'd have to live to about 500, and have a few eye replacements too.. 👀

😂I find that reassuring actually. Who was it who said we need more books than we can ever read, that its like having all the medicinal remedies you could ever need on hand, so you can select just the right tonic for the moment? I can't remember, but I agree with whoever said that. Stockpiling is the way.

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StoatofDisarray · 11/08/2024 19:21

Pat Barker is tough.

LondonLass61 · 11/08/2024 19:24

WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 17:00

Thanks for this. I've heard of Weldon but not read her. Will investigate. Ditto Taylor, who is new to me.

Woolf - yes, tough, but too early for my purposes!

The names which came easily to mind were Hannah Arendt, Simone de Beauvoir, Simone Weil, Joan Didion, Susan Sontag.

Who are the comparable British philosopher-storytellers?

Iris Murdoch

LMBoston · 11/08/2024 19:30

Richmal Crompton is massively underrated. Obviously the William stories are deliberately tough, but her adult stuff is brilliant and she has such a sharp eye — and tongue — for relationships, class, and social situations. Her ghost stories, especially, have a real “edge”. I want everyone to read her!

LMBoston · 11/08/2024 19:31

… and, of course, my namesake Lucy M Boston. Google her life story; you want a tough old bird, she was a top one 😎

WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 19:37

LMBoston · 11/08/2024 19:30

Richmal Crompton is massively underrated. Obviously the William stories are deliberately tough, but her adult stuff is brilliant and she has such a sharp eye — and tongue — for relationships, class, and social situations. Her ghost stories, especially, have a real “edge”. I want everyone to read her!

I had such a hoot reading the William books with eldest, I should add her adult fiction to the list. Thanks @LMBoston

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WhisperTree · 11/08/2024 19:38

LMBoston · 11/08/2024 19:31

… and, of course, my namesake Lucy M Boston. Google her life story; you want a tough old bird, she was a top one 😎

I DO! 😁
And shall

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Lovetotravel123 · 11/08/2024 19:39

Lionel Shriver - I guess she is American but writes in the UK. She tackles uncomfortable subjects in a very honest way.

Mercurial123 · 11/08/2024 19:41

Agree with Iris Murdoch

Popthetops · 11/08/2024 19:52

On my TBR pile I have The Balkan Trilogy by Olivia Manning, would that fit the bill?