War and Peace Readalong thread 2022 - thread 2

[VikingNorthUtsire]

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.
• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes
• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classics-Tolstoy/dp/0099512246/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

NB also this link for the kindle version: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classic-Russians-ebook/dp/B005CUS9AG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Signet-Classics-Tolstoy-ebook/dp/B001RWQVXA/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Penguin-Popular-Classics-ebook/dp/B0033805UG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

I found this article on translations, which you might find interesting. I kind of wish I had gone for Briggs, it’s clearly much easier to read. But I think in the long run I’ll get more from the Pevear and Volokhonsky translation, but it is a chore each day and detracts from the cinematic experience @VikingNorthUtsire describes so well, as I’m just focusing on figuring out what a sentence is conveying. welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

Who are Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky? 2007

They are a husband and wife translation team known for their prize-winning translations from Russian. Their method is for Volokhonsky (the Russian expert) to produce a literal English version for Pevear (the English expert) to edit and then discuss with her, further rounds of writing and editing being undertaken as needed

Fans of Pevear & Volokhonsky will choose theirs, as it claims to be the most authentic, albeit at the cost of smoothness.

If you don’t want old-fashioned language and you don’t want a raw literal translation, try Briggs or Dunnigan;

Just read the analysis posted by @DesdamonasHandkerchief, thank you for sharing. My two takeaways were

reminds us that history is not created by detached concepts like Napoleon, but rather by real men like Napoleon.

What emerges is not only the way individuals can impact history, but how big historical events - like horrific battles the likes of which Europe had rarely seen - similarly affect individuals

I think that last one is a key part of continuing to read along with current events.

That reminds me of the passage about the miller fishing with his grandson in the same place where the last shooting carried on.

I’m completely the opposite zafferana, find the war bits really boring and hard going but really enjoy all the drawing room stuff!

Volume 2 Part I

Chapter 1:
Nikolai Rostov has some home leave and takes, Russia’s answer to Jonathon Ross, his commander and ‘fwiend’ Vaska Denisov home with him for a few days.
As they approach his palatial Moscow family home Nikolai becomes as excited as a toddler, barely able to contain his boyish joy. (Despite his newly grown manly moustache!) His family (and even the servants) are overjoyed to see him showering him with love and kisses.
Just turned 16, Sonya is more beautiful than ever, and seems coy and embarrassed - ‘red as a beetroot’ - (at least she’s not a kitten) around her childhood sweetheart who in her eyes went away a boy and returned a man.

Despite the unparalleled joy at his return Nikolai, ever the dissatisfied little emperor, can’t help but feel a smidgeon put out that there wasn’t still ‘more’, he’s like a child on Christmas morning that feels a sense of anti climax the minute the mountain of presents are opened -
“Rostov was very happy with all the love showered upon him. But that first moment of their meeting had been sheer bliss and now his happiness seemed somehow reduced, as if more could be expected, more and more again.”

The next day Natasha is keen to have some alone time with the prodigal brother and reveals to him she no longer has the hots for Boris, with all the enthusiasm her 15 years can muster, she is now intent on being a ballet dancer rather than Mrs Drubetskoy
There is a discussion around whether or not Nikolai should ‘tu/toi’ Sonya or use the more formal ‘vous’. Ultimately it’s decided their relationship, on its new more grown up footing, demands ‘vous’, but when Nikolai and Sonya meet again their eyes are very much on ‘tu terms’. It’s left to Vera to ‘do a Vera’ and make everyone feel a bit awkward and uncomfortable by loudly pointing out how odd it is that Sonya and Nikolai have ‘gone all formal, like strangers.’ Thankfully the tumble weed blowing through the drawing room after this comment is swept aside by the arrival of the newly perfumed and quaffed Denisov, looking handsome and dashing and behaving;
“with the kind of sophistication and courtesy towards the ladies that Rostov had never expected to see in him.”

Ooh... Denisov is going to be trouble, isn't he?

I like Denisov although am concerned I will envision Jonathan Ross whenever he rocks up now!!

I liked the change of pace and looking forward to finding out more about how those 'back home' have been coping during the war. I also echo the pp - I hope Andrey counts his blessings a bit more and is longer to his wife... especially as she must surely have had the baby now (is it 6 months which has passed since the end of Book 1?)

*nicer to his wife (no idea what my phone was going for there!)

Thank you for your summary Desdemona!

Denisov, the dark horse (hoss!) I didn't know he had it in him.

You have to love Vera with her ability to disrupt the equilibrium of the drawing room with one pithy comment!

I found the home-coming rather touching, including the touches of humour, eg the new moustache, the room smelling of ‘tobacco and young men’. I hope as many of the Russian conscripts as possible will get to go home from Ukraine - as well as the Ukrainian defenders of course.

I like Denisov too, he's a good egg!

One more thing I want to mention from war chapters sorry…

We know Nikolas Rostov as impulsive and acts in spur of the moment, sometimes unwisely. But when he saw the emperor, he didn’t. Anyone have thoughts on the significance of that?

I enjoyed today's chapter, back to a nice easy read. My heart aches for his mum.

I’d say ‘awe’ pure and simple.

He was starstruck:)

Volume 2 Part I
Chapter 2:
Young Nikolai Rostov is back in town and he’s a decided hit. The most eligible, the most charming, the most fashionable - a hero, a role model …. and frankly a bit of a dick.
Worryingly, he’s able to indulge his taste for the high life - including high class prostitutes, cutting edge fashion, not to mention acquiring an actual race house - because his father has remortgaged all his estates, so there’s plenty of money sloshing around to keep Nikolai in the manor to which he’d like to become accustomed.

It doesn’t take long for Nikolai to decide that a young man of his status and influence needs to leave behind childish things and look forward not back.
Unfortunately for poor, beautiful Sonya she’s been filed firmly under ‘childish’ in Nikolai’s brain. He feels he has no other option than to break things off with her, it’s a relationship he now views as infantile and suffocating - because for a man such as himself, well… so many beautiful women so little time!

Count Ilya Rostov meanwhile has been charged with organising a lavish dinner to honour the war hero Prince Bagration. This is because the Count is:
a) Used to organising lavish dinners, and
b) Can be relied upon to supplement the budget from his own funds.
The hired help are cock-a-hoop knowing that plenty of money will be syphoned off into their own pockets when the genial Count isn’t looking.

Finally good old Anna Mikhaylovna fills us in on two things that have happened ‘off camera’.
Her darling son Boris has been promoted and Pierre Bezukhov is desperately unhappy in his marriage. (No surprises there.) Having been generous enough to invite Dolokhov into his home the blaggard has repaid Pierre by ‘compromising’ his wife Hélène. Yup he’s given her a right good compromising.
Count Rostov suggests Anna M. Invites Pierre to attend the dinner anyway, because ‘it will all blow over’, and everyone knows the best way of getting over your new bride's infidelity is to attend a lavish banquet.

The next day 250 guests assemble awaiting the guest of honour, Prince Bagration, the talk is of the surprising defeat at Austerlitz and of the courage and heroism of the Russian forces. The sad news of Andrei’s death on the battle field is overlooked however:
“There were no stories about Bolkonsky. Only those close to him said how sorry they were that he had died so young, leaving a pregnant wife in the hands of his eccentric old father.”

Thanks @Desdamonoashandkerchief
Yup he’s given her a right good compromising.

Do we think Andrei is actually dead or is there a chance that he will turn up? As far as I recall, he was left behind with the dying but I guess he could make a recovery and a surprise appearance? Embarrassingly, this is a reread for me as I read W&P a few years ago but have NO IDEA what is going to happen!

Excellent summary Desdemona thank you

I enjoyed Anna Mikhaylovna's reentry in the story; 'At this moment Anna Mikhaylovna padded into the room with that air of busy practicality allied to Christian meekness that never left her face.'

The denial of the defeat at Austerlitz is interesting: ' [...] rejected as unbelievable by some people...some special reason behind such a strange event...virtually a conspiracy of silence'. And also blaming the Austrians, poor logistical support and two treacherous foreigners! It resonates with what is going on today.

I've just caught up with you all after two weeks of focusing only on real-life events. Thanks for all the summaries and comments; I am getting so much more out of W&P this time round compared to ploughing through it on my own.

So much feels current, doesn't it. Nicolay's safe return home, and his mother just holding him and sobbing into his jacket, really resonated for me.

I'm also re-reading, Rifling, and have no recollection of what happens... at all! It was years ago but still - I expected to have a few light bulb moments but nope... clueless!

Aaaanyways, I think Andrey is alive and well.. well, maybe not well but recovering way back at the battle site. I wonder how his family took the news of his 'death'... to be fair, his demise was very heroic - racing into battle, armed with nothing but a flag, fighting for the honour of Mother Russia - so perhaps they'll be proud. Poor Squirrel though!

I caught up with the chapters today and there didn’t appear to be any suggestion that Andrei is dead. Napoleon and crew picked him up. From a Russian army perspective, I guess he didn’t return after the battle so they may have assumed.

"We know Nikolas Rostov as impulsive and acts in spur of the moment, sometimes unwisely. But when he saw the emperor, he didn’t. Anyone have thoughts on the significance of that?"

I felt it reinforced his extreme youth - being overwhelmed by his emotions and unable to act in such a momentous situation. I guess the flip side of his impulsive actions at other times.

Things don't sound promising for the Rostov family fortune!

Volume 2 Part I
Chapter 3:
Anyone who’s anyone is at the ‘Do’. (As long as they’re male of course.)
Pierre is wondering around treating those around him with contempt, looking miserable and myopic, having dispensed with the glasses and grown his hair out at his wife’s behest. Nicolai Rostov is chatting with Dolokhov ‘whose acquaintance he had recently made and greatly prized’. (Add great judge of character to Nikolai’s ‘particular set of skills’.)
Count Rostov is keeping all the plates spinning and occasionally drinking in the sight of his ‘pride and joy’, his ‘hero son’. He interrupts his conversation to introduce himself to Dolokhov, pumping his hand and inviting him to visit chez Rostov, saying any friend of his fine son is a friend of his.

The guest of honour, Prince Bagration, arrives. Poems are read, songs are sung, toasts are made, glasses are smashed, and when Count Ilya, as organsiser of this august event, is the subject of a special toast the emotion of it all becomes too much for him and Rostov buries his face in his handkerchief as he breaks into floods of tears.

I am still here too and reading daily (in fact, I am a day ahead because I forgot to have a day off!). Thanks for everyone's comments, which are adding so much to the experience of reading it.

I agree with everyone on the links between W&P and current events. Tolstoy's vivid descriptions of the chaos of war and the individuals caught up in it make it poignant but still important reading, I think, and he certainly doesn't glorify combat.

On a lighter note, I agree that all the characters are going to go 'through things' and even wet-blanket Pierre will no doubt grow as a consequence (and hopefully stop being so removed from reality and walked over by everyone in his life).

I just love Dolokhov, given he has been a fairly minor character so far, he's just a flash of colour every time he appears. Fearless and reckless – clearly mad, bad and dangerous to know. One of those types who is big trouble and yet nothing sticks to him.

Thanks Desdemona! There's nothing like a party to bring people together, although I think Bagration was wishing for the ground to open and swallow him up!
It was the count who was overcome with emotion not young Rostov. All the appreciation gets to you sometimes :)

It must have been so strange for Bagration, going from the horrors of war to this incredibly lavish party particularly as someone older & in charge who takes responsibility for the deaths/ injuries of his soldiers.

Yes I should have said Count Ilya Rostov for clarity, aren't Ilya and Nikolai both Counts? So many Counts and Prince's!