War and Peace Readalong thread 2022 - thread 2

[VikingNorthUtsire]

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.
• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes
• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classics-Tolstoy/dp/0099512246/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

NB also this link for the kindle version: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classic-Russians-ebook/dp/B005CUS9AG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Signet-Classics-Tolstoy-ebook/dp/B001RWQVXA/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Penguin-Popular-Classics-ebook/dp/B0033805UG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

Is there any books or good fan fiction from Hélène’s point of view? She seems so badass and really winning at this society game whilst maintaining her freedom and independence.

I just reread that perspective on Helene by BakeOffRewatch and it's very interesting! Maybe the fact that I'm quite Team Pierre is making me judge Helene too harshly. I do see her though as the kind of woman who cares about her own autonomy and independence but demonstrates no interest in female solidarity or helping other women. A kind of lesser version of Madame de Merteuil if you know Les Liaisons dangereuses.

I think fan fiction from Hélène's point of view would be fun to read :)

It's pouring out of the heavens here at the moment, so I hope some of you are enjoying some nice weather!

Definitely #TeamHelene here - I love how Tolstoy keeps telling us how stupid she is, whilst she totally nails getting a great deal out of a rigged system.

Yes, good point, she is meant to be stupid, but she's clever enough to have worked out how to survive within a patriarchal system!

I'm not sure she has any ethics though; she's happy to hand Natasha over to her brother without any qualms, thoughI imagine a liaison with Anatole could easily destroy Natasha's reputation.

Yes, I am feeling worried about Natasha. I really hope her reputation isn't about to be destroyed.

Yes that is really true that she doesn't have the language or the concept even of feeling attraction without thinking she is 'in love' it's very sad. I'm glad her somewhat useless father came through on her behalf or is wise to Anatole at least. I'm not sharing the Helen appreciation, I find her quite repellent!!

I'm still reading Tolstoy's yearbook alonside this and he is very insistent on women finding their vocation in motherhood and the family. I guess this is why Helene is portrayed so unfavourably.

I've just been reading about Anne Donne, who died aged 35 in childbirth with her 12th child, perhaps why I'm feeling particularly sympathetic to Helene right now! (obviously Tolstoy much later, but I'm not sure contraception / gynaecology had improved much in the intervening years)

I've got to say that Andrey feels a million times better to me as an option than Edmund, the utter drip. I maintain that Fanny should have married Henry and Mary, Edmund.

Oh dear, Tolstoy. I guess all of that frightening female sexual power has to be safely contained and directed into patriarchal channels 😫

Chapter 14
Marya Dmitrievna suggests that the Rostovs return to their country estate so that the Bolkonsky family can sort out their feelings about the marriage. Princess Marya Bolkonskyy_ sends Natasha a letter apologizing for having received her poorly. Natasha is torn between Prince Andrei and Anatole Kuragin. When she receives a love letter from Anatole (actually composed by Dolokhov), she decides that she must be with him.

Aaarrggghh Natasha what are you doing??

This is so well-written and believable. Poor Natasha, just discovering sexual attraction without any good advice and with the stakes so high. I really hope she makes the right decision.

I have to admit I had been confused with Anatole and Hippolyte up till this section, and may have thought they were the same person.

Poor Natasha, just discovering sexual attraction without any good advice and with the stakes so high.

This bit is so good - I now get why people rave about Tolstoy! I'm reading it and remembering what it was like to be a teenager and feel lust for the first time - it is so overpowering. And with Andrey out of sight and increasingly out of mind because he's been gone for months, and bad boy Anatole right there, whispering sweet nothings in her ears ...

It's a recipe for disaster, isn't it.

I'd disagree - I think (and more so as I get older) that kindness is very under-rated in a partner, and Edmund is demonstrably kind. Henry C started from very much the same place as Anatole (to make Fanny 'a little in love with him') and although - being Austen - he's more a rounded and complex figure, he's definitely not kind.

I'm not so sure about Andrey, his intentions are good, but he doesn't have great role models to work from.

And yes, poor Natasha, teenage mistakes had such high stakes back then for girls like her.

Aargh - new site fail - that was meant to quote StColumbo "I've got to say that Andrey feels a million times better to me as an option than Edmund, the utter drip. I maintain that Fanny should have married Henry and Mary, Edmund."

I do take your point @Sadik but I think Andrey is inherently a kind character. He is far from perfect, but I do think he does most things because he thinks they are right and just, even if he is proven wrong.

Hmmm, I am hoping that Andrei and Natasha do end up married as I think they could make a good go of it - they both seem to have their hearts in the right place and could be a good balance (Natasha livening Andrei up, him settling her down a bit). But it would certainly be "against the odds" given his toxic father and the influence that unpleasant version of masculinity has had on him. A real test of whether he really has changed much from the cold and misogynistic man we met in the early part of the book.

Sadik, that's exactly what I say to my ten DC about their choice of partner - the most important thing is to choose someone kind.

Arghh that should say teen DC - I don't have 10 children!!

I have to admit I had been confused with Anatole and Hippolyte up till this section, and may have thought they were the same person.

Good to know it's not just me Viking ! I also agree about Andrei inheriting a yet-to-be-confirmed amount of toxic masculinity from his father.

Incidentally, a random anecdote: DS2 (aged 11) used the term 'toxic masculinity' in casual conversation recently. I asked him where he heard it, and he said in his class at school, one boy got hurt on the playground and started crying, whereupon another boy said, 'Stop crying, be a man!' Their male teacher overheard and interjected, 'Enough already with the toxic masculinity!' 😂I love it.

Suddenly Natasha seems like a modern teenager, with all the unbridled emotions and the high sense of DRAMA.

I love the idea of looking for kindness in a partner. When DH and I get rocky, it's because we're not being kind enough to each other; that's the bottom line really.

Gradesaver had a bit of a spoiler with Dolokhov, no? La la la hands over ears.

I may have read ahead a little bit because I'm a very impatient person who likes immediate gratification. 😳And I can't believe the pace at which things are moving. I'm not used to this after Natasha's year-long engagement and so on! It's like Tolstoy on speed.

Gradesaver had a bit of a spoiler with Dolokhov, no? La la la hands over ears
No, it's in today's chapter!

Thanks rifling, I just read too quickly then and missed it -- embarrassing!

I've looked again and you're absolutely right, it says Dolokhov composed the letter.

Again this reminds me of Les Liaisons dangereuses where characters sometimes ghostwrite letters for other characters, to devastating effect. On the other hand I've just been teaching Les Liaisons to first years so it's a lazy association for my mind to make.

Oh I love Les Liaisons! I can vaguely remember another epistolary novel we read along with it - maybe La Princesse de Cleves? Happy days!