War and Peace Readalong thread 2022 - thread 2

[VikingNorthUtsire]

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.
• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes
• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classics-Tolstoy/dp/0099512246/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

NB also this link for the kindle version: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classic-Russians-ebook/dp/B005CUS9AG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Signet-Classics-Tolstoy-ebook/dp/B001RWQVXA/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Penguin-Popular-Classics-ebook/dp/B0033805UG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

‘Uncle’ enjoys his housekeeper as well…

'Good company' ahem ...

Chapter 8
The Rostov finances grow worse and worse, but they do nothing to alter their lifestyle. Countess Rostov realizes that the only way to save the family from bankruptcy is for Nikolai to marry the wealthy Julie Karaginn_. When the Countess makes overtures about this to Nikolai, he sharply rebuffs her, suggesting that he might still love Sonya. Meanwhile, Natasha grows depressed after Andrei writes that he will return later than expected.

I somehow forgot to read Chapter 7 so had a double whammy last night.

Have to agree, Chapter 7 was a delight - both Natasha & Nikolay just enjoying each others company, the lovely 'Uncle' and his household, the music, singing and dancing - just a really evocative section.

Made the next chapter slightly sadder, to me - the Rostovs could reduce themselves down to similar levels and perhaps find real happiness in a more simpler standard of living and yet, sounds like they'll continue running themselves into the ground until they are bankrupt. Mind you, with 20 odd (!!) people to dinner every night - perhaps its completely unfeasible for them.

I'm also not warming much to Nikolay - as mentioned upthread... the Rostov financial situation was exacerbated by his dreadful card playing and yet, he won't even tie himself to a young heiress for life to make up for it... kids, huh!! In seriousness, I guess marrying for love is desirable but surely Nikolay is of an era when sometimes, sacrifices have to be made and surely Sonya could stay on with him as his fancy lady? Wasn't that the done thing??

The 'fancy lady' wasn't usually someone in respectable society though, with the exception of affairs, which if we believe 19th century writers were rife. Some historical basis as well I think in the sense that most society and aristocratic marriages were arranged to some degree and after a certain point blind eyes were turned.

I love chapter 7. Here is a review of the book that I was referring to above 'Natasha's Dance'. I've only dipped into it but have read his other stuff and whilst he isn't without his problems and critics 'Natasha's Dance' is a really interesting way of looking at the divisions in Russian society at the time between Slavophiles and 'Westernisers'.

www.theguardian.com/books/2002/sep/21/featuresreviews.guardianreview1

I should say, these were the debates that Tolstoy was also grappling with.

Thank you @StColumbofNavron ! I'd like to read it. I have thoughts on the whole 'Russian soul' thing which I found a bit bogus but maybe I'm a bit un keen on nationalism these days - also feeling unwell with a nasty cold so perhaps not in the mood to appreciate.

And for Tolstoy I suppose Russian ness was an important corrective if everyone else was madly Europhile.

Like you, @RebeccaNoodles, I found the idea of innate Russianness troubling (not least because I’m partly descended from victims of Russian anti-semitism), but I wondered if we should see it primarily as a way of expressing social solidarity. Rather than seeing the serfs almost as a different, inferior species, Tolstoy is emphasising the connections between all Russians, which could then be linked to social justice eg abolition of serfdom.

Yes that's a good point @ChannelLightVessel

I must say I'm not feeling very sanguine about the Rostov family's prospects!

Chapter 9
It is Christmastime at the Rostov house. Natasha is moody and bored, and cannot wait for Prince Andrei’s return.

"surely Nikolay is of an era when sometimes, sacrifices have to be made and surely Sonya could stay on with him as his fancy lady? Wasn't that the done thing??"

It absolutely was the done thing and the human consequences were huge. So much of Jane Austen, the Brontes etc. is exploring the pressure on women to make a good match because they have no way of earning an income. It feels rarer to see it from a male perspective.
We visited Blenheim recently and it was rather repulsive to learn that the men of the family were quite happy to cold-bloodedly marry American heiresses to finance the upkeep of the family pile. If I remember rightly, they had manipulated the original funding out of Queen Anne and the British government, then a later Duke had frittered away the family money. One of the male heirs told his American wife on their wedding day that he'd only married her for money, he loved someone else and he would never return to America (having got what he came for) as he despised anything not British.
It made me reflect on where "family money" comes from and how entitled the upper classes have always been. I am pleased Nikolay isn't going down that route though I can't see what choices the family have if they are unwilling to even contemplate cutting their coat according to their cloth!

Chapter 10
Natasha, Nikolai, and Sonya chat about boredom, depression, and the origins of life. Later, they attend a masquerade ball where the guests are expected to dress as mummers (i.e., in drag). Oddly, Sonya looks more beautiful than ever in her outfit, and Nikolai once again thinks to himself that he loves her. They ride to the party in sleighs and get lost in the forest, a moment which brings them pure joy.

Sonya looks more beautiful than ever in her moustache outfit 😁

A good chapter. I'm glad they are getting together.

Loved the sleigh ride... I've always wished I lived in a time before cars and had to travel everywhere by horse, carriage or sleigh! I bet it wasn't even half as romantic as it sounds but I just love the idea of a horse joining me on every adventure!

Chapter 11
At the party, Sonya heads out to the barn to get her fortune told. Nikolai goes with her and kisses her on the lips on the way there.

Aw... it was quite a sweet chapter today and lovely to hear of Sonya letting herself rip a little. She's sounded so meek up until now - amazing what power you get from a moustache!

Yes 😄Dressing up gave her a new confidence.

Yes I love the image of Sonya in her moustache!

I don't know if it's just me, but I'm suspicious that Nikolay basically only regained his interest in Sonya once he was put on the spot re Julie Karagin. I reckon there's a fair chance he'll back out if another option comes along that takes his fancy.

Chapter 11
At the party, Sonya heads out to the barn to get her fortune told. Nikolai goes with her and kisses her on the lips on the way there.

Chapter 12
Nikolai confides in Natasha that he plans to propose to Sonya. That night, Natasha and Sonya try to see visions in their mirror, an old fortune-telling practice. Natasha sees nothing, but Sonya sees a vision of Prince Andrei lying down and smiling cheerfully. The girls are frightened and have no idea what it means.
The above is from Gradesaver, but I don't agree with the statement that Sonya 'sees' Andrei in the mirror, in fact Tolstoy baldly states 'Sonya hadn't seen anything,' she just doesn't want to admit to the other two she's drawn a blank.

Yeah, Sonya totally didn't see Andrey and I'm confused as to why she said she did - I guess her little but of fire from the previous couple of chapters has gone as quickly as it arrived.

I wonder of Nikolay will actually propose? I'm in two minds as whilst he was intoxicated whilst they were playing dress up, I think he might 'sober up' and rethink in the cold light if day!

I think that Sonya said she saw something in the mirror because they expected her to and she wanted to please them.

I don't feel reassured by Nikolay asking Natasha if he's going the right thing. Once dressing up is over, will he still feel the same about Sonya? Was it just a thing of the moment?