War and Peace Readalong thread 2022 - thread 2

[VikingNorthUtsire]

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.
• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes
• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classics-Tolstoy/dp/0099512246/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

NB also this link for the kindle version: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classic-Russians-ebook/dp/B005CUS9AG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Signet-Classics-Tolstoy-ebook/dp/B001RWQVXA/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Penguin-Popular-Classics-ebook/dp/B0033805UG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

Chapter 7
The narrative flashes back two years, to early 1808.
Pierre becomes the head of the Petersburg Freemasons. Although he devotes lots of time and money to running the organization, he still maintains the same licentious lifestyle. He’s not the only one who does this – many of the brothers seem to care only about the outer trappings of Freemasonry and do not follow the virtues it espouses. Pierre tries to resolve these doubts by going “abroad to be initiated into the highest mysteries of the order” (434). When he returns in 1809, he brings back controversial ideas about renewing and expanding the Petersburg chapter. These ideas are received badly by the group.

Very clitchy sight last night so I think we need two chapters, but if not spoiler alert

Chapter 8
Hélène writes to Pierre and asks him to take her back. Under pressure from his mother-in-law, Bazdeev, and the Masons, Pierre agrees.

Am I up to date and on the right day guys???

Yes! That's right Desdamona!

I seem to be a couple of chapters ahead - not deliberately - I got a bit confused about where I was meant to be up to. Don't worry no spoilers 🤐

Chapter 9
Hélène has acquired a reputation as an intelligent and witty woman, and her salons are a hit among the St. Petersburg intelligentsia. This shocks Pierre, who has always considered his wife rather stupid. He is neither interested in nor valued by the society of these salons. He begins to suspect that his wife is having an affair with Boris Drubetskoyy_, who continues to visit often.

Oooh, I didn't pick up on the affair thing... I thought Pierre was just annoyed that he was always at their house. At least I don't think he'll be challenging him to a duel - hopefully he's learned his lesson from last time.

I was surprised that Pierre took Helene back as I thought he'd become stronger than that but no, just took the easy route again. He's infuriating!

Pierre sees Hélène as the cross he has to bear on the road to self-improvement. You could definitely argue that he is weak, but in his own mind he considers this a bold, brave move and the right thing to do.

I liked this description of Pierre from chapter 7; One foot down and in he went, so as to convince himself he was still on firm ground he had stepped out with the other foot, sunk further in and got stuck in the mud. Now, despite himself, he was knee-deep and struggling.

He always gets stuck in his good intentions, poor bumbling Pierre.

I finished reading the diary entries yesterday. It was quite draining all the naval-gazing introspection!

Chapter 10
Although he still hates Boris, Pierre inducts him into the Freemasons. He suffers a spiritual crisis because his genuine dedication to Masonic ideas nevertheless does not bring him a feeling of virtue.

How typical of Boris to see the brotherhood as a networking opportunity! I think that Pierre just managed to keep himself in check; what I wanted to do was really stab him in his bare chest with the sword I was pointing at it.

^^

Haha... yes, I agree Fuzzy - so much for my 'he wouldn't challenge him to a duel' thoughts of earlier this week. Although I suppose he did restrain himself.

They might be a bit tedious but I'm actually enjoying Boris' diary excerpts. I've never been very spiritual and am firmly agnostic and so I've always found it fascinating reading the musings of those who truly believe. You can tell Pierre is very conflicted but is also soo desperate for it all to be true, to give his life meaning, he really goes for it. I'm not saying I'm after too much more of it and would happily swap it for some soiree gossip but I've never really understood blind faith... so to me, it's interesting.

No, SanFranBear, it wasn't too tedious. I was poking fun at it. Some lines made me smile, although I don't think that was Tolstoy's intention 😄

I'm finding Pierre's diary entries very interesting. Although it's nominally within a Christian framework, his aspirations (particularly in the sections regarding Helene / the salon etc) feel very close to the Stoic / Buddhist views around non-attachment. (Which I guess fits with Tolstoy's later influence on Gandhi.)

Just realised I said Boris' diary when of course, it's Pierres. I'd be interested to read more of Boris' inner thoughts though - he's clearly very ambitious which I think is what mainly drives him but there is definitely more to him... if nothing else, as Anna M's son, I expect he's got some tales to tell 😉

I spent a lovely hour in a cafe by myself this afternoon and caught up with the chapters and the thread.

I adore the development of Andrei. As an upper class man he was never going to be bringing up his son anyway, but he is trying to make the world a better place I suppose. Pierre less so, but I just don’t find the philosophising that interesting so it’s not his fault really and you can see how he has ended up here. I took Helene to be having an affair with Boris when he met her a while back and became an intimate or frequent visitor to Helene’s.

There's nothing better StColomb, an hour to yourself with coffee and a book.

Agreed!

I've just caught up today too although the circumstances weren't as peaceful -- I swear DS came to speak to me at least twice per chapter!

Boris is absolutely a networker, I agree. You wouldn't catch him writing an introspective diary! A list of useful social contacts maybe. 😁

Interesting point about Stoicism/Buddhism, Sadik. In fact I recall that the Stoic philosopher Seneca said that in the evening, he did a kind of inventory of his day, examining his actions and thinking about what he could have done better. So not entirely different to Pierre's journalling!

I still like Pierre although he's insanely earnest, even for a character in a Russian novel, ha. Andrei also has an ethical sense, but he's more worldly (and therefore sexier IMO!).

I'm enjoying the novel's interlaced plots and the way it moves back and forth from one character to another, so we are implicitly being invited to compare Andrei and Pierre's character development. It looks like we're back with the Rostovs tomorrow.

Chapter 11
The Rostovs visit St. Petersburg, where Lieutenant Bergg_ proposes to Vera. Although he is of low rank and has no fortune, they accept because Vera loves him and the family finances are in complete disarray. Count Rostov struggles to scrape together a dowry.

It's not looking very promising for the Rostovs - shunned slightly from St Petersburg society, struggling for money which the proud Count won't acknowledge and with nothing in the future to lift them out. I feel for them somewhat although they also raised Nikolay who has plunged them into their current financial strife and Natasha who sounds dreadfully spoiled. Looking forward to seeing what happens!

Oh I like Natasha! I think she is sweet.

😃I'm probably just jealous as she truly seems to have a stress-free, care-free existence. But she seems very headstrong and a bit attention seeking, to me at any rate. Will be good to see how her story continues too...

Chapter 12
Boris visits the Rostovs, intending to clarify to Natasha that he no longer wants to marry her (because she has no money). However, he is struck by the sixteen-year-old girl’s beauty and cannot bring himself to break things off with her. He begins to spend less time at Hélène Bezukhov’s salons and more time with the Rostovs.

Oh, Boris - despite all his alleged maturity, still a sucker for a pretty face!

Yes 😄I'm wondering how this is going to go.
Natasha is a determined little madam. I think she will marry Boris.

I think you're right too, Fuzzy 😄

Chapter 13
Countess Rostovv_ asks Natasha to stop associating with Boris, since it is clear that Boris loves her and Natasha doesn’t reciprocate. Natasha is reluctant to stop spending time with him, even though she agrees that he would make a bad husband. Against Natasha’s wishes, Countess Rostov asks Boris to stop visiting their house.

Hmmm... I really can't warm to Natasha and the last chapter didn't help. I know she's privileged and only 16 but she comes over much younger and is definitely spoiled. Ah well, looks like her match with Boris is definitely up in smoke - I guess the Rostovs envision better for her although with no dowry and not the best social standing, not sure how they'll manage that?