War and Peace Readalong thread 2022 - thread 2

[VikingNorthUtsire]

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.
• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes
• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classics-Tolstoy/dp/0099512246/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

NB also this link for the kindle version: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classic-Russians-ebook/dp/B005CUS9AG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Signet-Classics-Tolstoy-ebook/dp/B001RWQVXA/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Penguin-Popular-Classics-ebook/dp/B0033805UG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

Aww feel better soon Viking! I've had some post-Covid complications (asthma etc), so I still don't feel back to normal. I'm definitely getting better, it's just slow. Everyone says, rest, and rest is the right thing to do!

I really want Tushin and Denisov to be OK.

Chapter 19
Napoleon and Tsar Alexander meet in Tilsit (in Prussia) to negotiate a peace treaty. Boris Drubetskoy comes along.
Nikolai also arrives in Tilsit to deliver Denisov’s petition. When he visits his old friend, he is put off by Boris’s chumminess with his French-raised roommate and by his initially cool reception – Nikolai seems to have arrived at a bad time. Boris agrees to help with the petition, but warns Nikolai that it is unlikely to be successful.

ChannelLightVessel I can think of worse spots to waste a few hours!

Nikolay was so cross, wasn't he? But I feel like I've missed something or perhaps just don't know much about that time period but....

They're still fighting the French out on the battlefields but are schmoozing the upper echelons including Napoleon? Can kind of see Nikolay's point if that's the case - although he did kind of come across as a spoiled brat... wouldn't leave but also wouldn't be polite either. Good luck, Denisov - not sure he'll be successful either but perhaps he'll catch the Emperor in a good mood? They're so removed from the day-to-day reality of warfare, aren't they?

Chapter 20
Nikolai impulsively decides to personally deliver Denisov’s petition to the tsar. He is nearly turned away, but manages to get it to Alexander through an old acquaintance. Alexander rejects the petition, but Nikolai is so awed by the sovereign that he does not seem to notice.

I think you're right SanFranBear. The emperors are talking to each other, but this hasn't filtered down to the ranks yet. It seems to be highlighting the futility of war when yesterday's enemy can become today's ally.

Yes, it's sickening. They are dining with each other and swapping medals whilst the soldiers are expected to fight to the death!

I don't blame Nikolai for feeling aggrieved. It's too soon for him to see the rapprochement of the generals and higher ranking officials when he has just seen the misery of wounded soldiers at the hospital.

Chapter 21
Nikolai joins Alexander’s entourage as the tsar arrives to meet Napoleon. As a gesture of peace, Napoleon gives the French Legion of Honor to an especially brave Russian officer, Lazarevv_. Alexander seems uncomfortable with this recognition because it requires him to reciprocate by giving a Russian honor to a French officer. Nikolai has trouble reconciling the carnage he saw at the hospital with the Russians’ new respect and deference for the French. However, he eventually decides that “if it pleases the sovereign emperor to recognize Bonaparte as emperor and conclude an alliance with him––it means it has to be so”

That's the end of part two!

The description of Nikolai's inner turmoil was very well done. He was scared of his own reflections, but he couldn't get away from them

Yes, I liked where we could see what was going on in Nikolay's head - explained a lot. Did make me when he thought the honour was coming his way... you're not even in uniform, Nikolay!!

I hope we hear whether Denisov rallies in the next Part - not just a footnote of his demise!

I was thinking the same SanFranBear about Nikolay

Gradesaver Analysis
Volume II Part 2
Pierre’s conversion to Freemasonry provides a pretext for some of the novel’s explicit abstract, philosophical musings. Later in the novel, Tolstoy will break the fourth wall for extended meditations on abstract topics, including historiography at the beginning of Volume III and freedom and determinism (among other topics) in the long epilogue.
Although these later discussions are longer and more clearly separate from the novel’s plot, the length and intellectual depth of Pierre and Andrei’s discussion blurs the distinction between fiction and essay. Indeed, Pierre’s ideas about the brotherhood of man and peasant emancipation resemble some of Tolstoy’s own beliefs, so there’s some substance to the idea that the exchange is something of a Socratic dialogue.
However, though the work takes a turn into more philosophical territory, this is not a break in character for Pierre, who has so far been a spiritual and philosophical soul. He has always faced the conflict between the material and spiritual world, thus far usually choosing to eschew the latter in favor of more animal impulses, like his antics with Anatole or his marriage to Hélène despite lacking passion for her. What distinguishes Pierre here is merely that he is growing up, willing to commit more towards his longing for spiritual happiness over material fulfillment. Pierre is often described as a cipher for Tolstoy himself, and certainly Tolstoy's famed attitude towards his own peasants (and Tolstoy's ambivalence towards his own wealth) support this interpretation. Autobiography is not the point, but rather these connections help to enforce the idea that Pierre is the moral center of the novel. His questions about spirituality - and by default, whether a spirituality needs to be preached to mankind in general or is meant for each individual - help to contextualize the struggles of the other characters in the novel. Pierre continues to struggle with these questions. Consider that he joins the Masons as a somewhat desperate attempt to find meaning in his life, even though he does not subscribe to one of its fundamental beliefs, its Christianity. Likewise, his orders to improve the lives of his peasants fail because he does not have the focus on the material world to make them happen. He is growing, but hardly can be seen as a bastion of perfection.
In many of these ways, Andrei serves as a foil to Pierre, and will continue to do so. He confronts the same conflict: he yearns for the glory of battle, but has realized its moral depravity. Where Pierre attempts to find meaning by turning to the world around him, Andrei wishes to cut himself off, to live within his own private world, unconcerned with the good of anyone else. Essentially, they are both spiritual wanderers, and each attempts to find the same goal (spiritual fulfillment) through different paths. Tracing their attempts provides perhaps the most dominant philosophical and emotional center of the expansive work. In the end, these two emphasize as much as any other character Tolstoy's interest in psychological contradictions and complications. Most of his characters transcend allegory or caricature, but these two in particular are full of difficult elements that are impossible to rectify unless we accept them as full, real human beings.
Tolstoy was very frank about the violence and terror of battle in Volume I. In Volume II, he explores the psychological and physical consequences of war using the same gritty, medical realism. The most potent examples of are the starving soldiers in Denisov’s regiment, so desperate that they knowingly eat poisonous roots, and the revolting, typhus-ridden hospital. Likewise, Denisov's crime is not viewed as a crime because his mind has been so ruined by starvation. To say "war changes people" is a cliche except that it's full of difficult, painful truths, some of which Tolstoy explores here.
However, the repercussions of war are not limited to physical suffering. Through Andrei Bolkonskyy_’s new disillusionment with war, Tolstoy demonstrates how violence and, in Andrei’s case, a near-death experience can crush a man’s dreams. For Andrei, this change is not entirely negative – his personality softens considerably, and although he is more retiring than before, he is also more considerate and dedicates himself to his child rather than his own glory.
This section highlights contrast. There are stark differences between Andrei’s new personality and his old one; between the awkward, uncertain Pierre and Bazdeev’s confident composure; and between the horror of the hospital and the Pavlogradsky camp in Poland and the opulent ceremonies in Tilsit. The vast scope of the novel allows Tolstoy to portray vastly different characters, from the dregs of the battlefield to the highest reaches of Petersburg society, all the way to the rulers of Russia and France. The contrasts in the story demonstrate the potential for characters (and society) to change over the course of the novel, and the potential for any and every man, from the highest to lowest, to impact history.

Gradesaver
Volume II Part 3
Chapter 1
It is now 1809. Russia is allied with France against Austria, and the government is conducting a number of internal reforms. Pierre has not made much headway in improving the lives of his peasants, but by using his tenacity and intelligence, Prince Andrei has emancipated the workers on his estates and made real improvements for them. He visits the Ryazan estates, which are being held in trust for his son, and recommits himself to a quiet life taking care of his family and property.

Today is a day off, start book 3 tomorrow. Wishing everyone a restful Easter weekend!

You too BakeOffRewatch!

Oh no I read the op wrong! D’oh. @DesdamonasHandkerchief having our back there again!

Thanks for posting the end of section commentary, Desdemona. It really brings it all together. I'm wondering who Bazdeev is. He has great composure, whoever he is :)

Just caught up. Thanks to everyone who has posted all the commentary and summaries along the way.

This block I’ve really felt the payback from the investment of getting to know so many characters early on - seeing old friends again and the broad scale of events as well. Particularly liked these last couple of chapters where we feel Nicholas’s outrage at the senior officers socialising with the French. Shades of Mary’s piety in the way he swerves away from questioning the all-knowing great leader.

I really liked this bit from the overall summary of Vol 2:

The contrasts in the story demonstrate the potential for characters (and society) to change over the course of the novel, and the potential for any and every man, from the highest to lowest, to impact history

It's a nice thought - that we can all change history, whoever we may be. I was ridiculously pleased to see Andrey following through and actually succeeding where Pierre was failing. He's definitely changing history for his small part of Russia.

War certainly focuses the mind and I think the point made around how the previous volume was about the fallout, not the combat, was really interesting.

Still keeping everything crossed for Denisov!

I'm horribly behind again on reading and on holiday in a different time zone so apologies if I post chapter summaries too early or too late for the next week or so.
Hopefully I can catch up on reading this week and join in the discussions a bit more.

From Gradesaver:
Volume II Part 3
Chapter 2
Prince Andrei visits Count Rostov, who is now serving as a marshal on the Ryazan estates. He overhears Sonya and Natasha chatting girlishly and feels conflicted about the choices he has made in life.

It’s Spring, and the sap is rising…

The ‘journey’ of Andrei’s character is one of my favourite things in W&P. I’ve had to sit on my hands hugely as he was (rightly) critiqued and of course the ways in which he changed/es doesn’t negate his past behaviours, but I love the human side of him, the dark melancholy side and everything in between.

I totally agree with @Cornishblues that all that investment at the beginning is starting to pay off now.

It’s not spoiling to say, we have so much more to come (which you will know because there is still plenty of book left).

One of the things that the section summary touched on was the way Tolstoy uses the narrative and his characters and it refers to his lengthy epilogue(s) at the end. I’m restating, though I already stated at the beginning, I’m 100% never reading the second epilogue again, ever.

StColombo. I skipped it last time but in order to truthfully say I've properly read W&P I'm hoping to read 'the words' in the second epilogue this time! Whether I bother, or can, make any sense of aforementioned words is doubtful!