War and Peace Readalong thread 2022 - thread 2

[VikingNorthUtsire]

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.
• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes
• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classics-Tolstoy/dp/0099512246/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

NB also this link for the kindle version: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classic-Russians-ebook/dp/B005CUS9AG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Signet-Classics-Tolstoy-ebook/dp/B001RWQVXA/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Penguin-Popular-Classics-ebook/dp/B0033805UG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

Placemarking as this fell off my Active List and I am still reading. Yes, Pierre is disappointing. Hopefully he'll pull his socks up a bit soon.

From Shmoop:
Volume 2, Part 2, Chapter 11
• Pierre is feeling all proud of himself and decides to go visit his old friend Andrei. What we get here is a chapter that doesn’t really advance plot or character, but does something that introduces a whole new genre into the novel’s mix: the philosophical dialogue.
• Andrei is living in a new house on the small estate near his father’s place. He is super grumpy and doesn’t seem too thrilled to see his old friend Pierre. Pierre thinks Andrei looks dead inside.
• 

• They start to catch up on old times, but the conversation is going pretty poorly. When Pierre asks Andrei about his future plans, Andrei doesn’t have much to say.
• Pierre starts telling him all about his good works for his serfs, and that’s when the fun begins. And by fun, we mean a dry, dense conversation about morality.
• Pierre says he is so relieved that he didn’t kill Dolokhov in the duel – after all, killing is wrong.
• Andrei is all, well, I don’t know about that. All I live for is to avoid remorse and illness.
• Pierre is shocked and puts in a good word for self-sacrifice and doing good things for others.
• Andrei says, meh. To him, his old life of living for glory was pretty much all about doing things for others and getting their praise – but now, he just lives for himself and his family.
• Pierre starts getting more and more agitated, arguing that it’s crazy to think that trying to make other people’s lives better is a bad thing.
• Andrei then says this:
• 1. No human knows what is good and what is evil.
• 2. Trying to help the serfs is probably going to backfire. For instance, giving serfs an education and the desire for bigger and better things without the means to get them is just cruel. He has a point obviously – the whole feudal system needs to change if their lives are going to be improved. But it’s clear that he doesn’t really think the serfs are fully human.
3. He is only doing the stuff with the militia because he needs to keep an eye on his crazy old dad,and he’s the only one who can stand up to Prince Bolkonsky.
• Pierre can tell that the combination of his army experience and the death of his wife has totally changed Andrei.

I enjoyed that exchange between Andrei and Pierre, but Andrei's dehumanising view of the serfs is shocking.

Yes, they are just like cattle to him.

Yeah, didn't like Andrey's tone throughout really... grouchy, rude and abrupt and then his attitudes to the serfs - I was proper

I'd grown to rather like him as well and now, from my comfortable, warm, 21st Century viewpoint - he seems a tad extreme! I get his whole life has been based on him being 'better' than those who slave away for him and he sort of has a point (for that point in time!) but ffs, Andrey - read the room!

I guess if you own slaves you have to justify it to yourself like he does or realise how awful you are as a human being.

Interestingly I had read it as an ongoing example of Andrey being depressed / disengaged following Lise's death - a nihilistic 'nothing is of any consequence and everything is pointless' rather than a genuine reflection of his underlying views. But perhaps I'm being overly kind

I agree @Sadik, I highlighted this 2 chapters prior on my kindle because I found it described how I felt when I had anxiety perfectly, a “groundless fear” and his brain filtering for everything that confirmed bad stuff, and not registering the good.

His wife has died, he feels some blame for it, and his world view and respect for fellow man and society (already weak) has been shattered through his war experience.

Doesn’t he have a point, given what transpired in the last chapter - I mean about the futility of trying to do more than in your local circle, not his opinion on the humanity of serfs!

Today's chapter certainly backs up that thought, Sadik & Bakeoff... its clear he still feels dreadful guilt about Lise's death (although not enough to take his son with him when he ups sticks to another estate...although I guess its still under construction but still - of my son meant as much to me as it feels like baby Nickolay does to Andrey, I'd be close at all times).

From Gradesaver:
Volume II Part 2
Chapter 12
On their way to Bald Hills to visit Andrei's family, Pierre and Andrei continue their debate in more civil terms. Although Andrei still disagrees with Pierre’s views, he finds the discussion invigorating to his inner life. He still experiences flashes of longing for war’s excitement and glory.

Pierre did well today He is a good friend to Andrei and one hopes that this is the start of his healing over the loss of his wife.

From Gradesaver:
Volume II Part 2
Chapter 13
When Pierre and Andrei arrive at Bald Hills, Princess Marya is hosting the people of God, a group of itinerant religious beggars. The two men gently mock and question two of the beggars, which greatly embarrasses Marya.

Thanks Desdemona!
It looked more like Andrei was doing the mocking and Pierre the apologising!

Agreed - Pierre was a bit cheeky to start but seemed to pull it together by the end whereas Andrey was just rude from the off.

Is the old Count particularly religious? I can't remember now although I guess the fact Marya tends to get her 'People of God' out of his way as well makes me think not. Poor Marya and her luminous eyes (makes me think of cats eyes!)

Marya and her luminous eyes I think of the owl from the Gruffalo.
I think Tolstoy could drop the mention of her luminous eyes at this stage!

He'll never let it go... hell, Lise's memorial had a bloody downy upper lip ffs

@SanFranBear

He'll never let it go... hell, Lise's memorial had a bloody downy upper lip ffs

I know!!

From Gradesaver:
Volume II Part 2
Chapter 14
The elder Prince Nikolai Bolkonsky arrives. He and Pierre have a friendly argument about war – Prince Nikolai believes that men will always have urges to fight, while the pacifist Pierre thinks that humanity will eventually transcend the need for war. Pierre gets along well with the entire Bolkonsky household.

I quite liked these chapters with the Bolkonskys. They're by no means perfect, but they are kind and affectionate to each other even when they're disagreeing or teasing. I'd like Pierre to marry Masha and they could go around doing good works for all sorts of religious eccentrics. She'd be far better for him then Helene.

Oooh, agree - love a nice wedding. Pierre did seem a bit blind to her charms though although it's not really touched upon.

I thought it was really wonderful how Pierre was genuinely liked and respected whilst at Bald Hills. It was in such sharp contrast to his time in Moscow when everyone claimed to love him and want to be around him but it was clear, they only 'loved' him for his newly acquired wealth and status. You got the feeling the Bolkonskys really wanted to spend time with him - I loved the way the old Count came alive around him. I went to sleep with a smile on my face last night - it was so heartwarming.

I also thought that Pierre and Masha would make a nice couple - but presumably that could only happen if Helene dies?

Yes, same. Talk about marrying in haste and repenting at leisure!

I've just caught up after falling behind for a few days. I really enjoyed these chapters and also everyone's comments on them.

I hadn't realised that Andrei was so deeply affected by the loss of his wife.

As for Pierre, he has a seemingly limitless ability to find new ways of being naive. Oh dear!

But Pierre did do something for Andrei, giving him another 'blue sky' moment and awakening something spiritual inside him.

at you all cleverly pointing out the luminous eyes and the little moustache motifs. The statue comment made me laugh out loud.

From Gradesaver:
Volume II Part 2
Chapter 15

Nikolai Rostov is relieved to leave society and to return to the Pavlogradsky regiment’s ordered routine. They are in Poland awaiting the start of the next campaign. He feels deeply guilty about his gambling losses, and tries his best to pay his family back. He also cares for a Polish refugee family. Despite his botched proposal to Natasha, Denisov is an even closer friend to Nikolai than he was before. The regiment is impoverished and the men live in vile conditions, surviving on wild plants.

Thanks Desdemona... I thought it was interesting hearing Nikolays thought processes (and how he's planning on paying back his family!) That said, 10,000 roubles from then is worth just under £900k in today's money so I think he could probably scrimp a bit more to pay them back! That's sooo much money - how can the Rostov estate support that?

That summary has helped me massively as I googled Bartenstein last night (so I can make sure we drop in on our tour) and it was firmly in Germany and I was very . Having now checked for Bartenstein in Poland, makes a lot more sense as its just up the road from Bagrationovsk and is now called Bartoszyce.

To be fair, the German town looks absolutely beautiful - that's the photo - and from that chapter, I think I'd rather be in the lush forests hunting game and picking berries than scavenging in the way the army is having to in Poland. Mind you, it sounds like the whole area has been decimated so not really a fault of the locale.