War and Peace Readalong thread 2022 - thread 2

[VikingNorthUtsire]

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.
• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes
• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classics-Tolstoy/dp/0099512246/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

NB also this link for the kindle version: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classic-Russians-ebook/dp/B005CUS9AG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Signet-Classics-Tolstoy-ebook/dp/B001RWQVXA/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Penguin-Popular-Classics-ebook/dp/B0033805UG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

Rebecca I think a lot of Pierre's debauchery has happened 'off camera'. In chapter 6 of Volume 1 Part 1, when Andrei tells Pierre to straighten up and fly right and above all stop hanging around with the Kuragins, Pierre answers:

“Can’t be helped, old man,’ said Pierre with a shrug. ‘Women, my dear fellow, women.”

So I think there's been a lot more brothel visiting than we've been party to, and of course he sees his loveless marriage to Hélène, which he got sucked into due to lust, as the source of all his current woes.

Yes that makes sense @DesdamonasHandkerchief

@VikingNorthUtsire

Gosh, this whole freemason initiation ritual is NOT where I was expecting the plot to go.

Can't help but agree.

The women thing - I'm not sure what other vices he really has as he's still quite two-dimensional at the moment, all bumbling idiot with no social graces. I'm expecting this part to give us probably more insight than we'll ever need.

I was fascinated by the initiation. Do you think this is actually how it's done? The freemasons are such a closed community and I know they claim its not all 'left nipples out' (although that bit in the text made me laugh), but they are one of the oldest groups in the world so expect its a little odd.

Do you think Pierre does actually believe in God now? I'm not so sure...

I seem to remember lots of jokes decades ago (when maybe free masons were more prevalent?) about secret hand shakes and having to roll up one trouser leg at initiation ceremonies. (Never heard the nipple one!) Not sure if Tolstoy started that rumour or is just reporting it!

I wasn't expecting Masons either! I like Rebecca's point about there being a touch of humour in Tolstoy's description.

I think Pierre is so disillusioned by society life he's always been a social misfit that he's quite vulnerable at the moment to any ideology that seems to hold out the promise of endowing his life with meaning. Yet despite the noble language about brotherhood, I'm not sure the Masons have much of substance to offer. First, there's the emphasis on blind obedience and doing as you're told (as exemplified in the initiation ceremony). In a sense this isn't much of a departure for Pierre, because he's always had the tendency to be quite passive and do as he's told (remember the scene at his father's deathbed when Anna M is dragging him around). So I don't think this is entirely the great transformation of worldview that he thinks it is. (As an aside I suspect this is why many cults and religious movements appeal to hungry souls in general: it's quite comforting to turn your life over to someone else who supposedly has all the answers.) Secondly, it's interesting that many Masons are people Pierre recognises from society anyway. If they are leading these radically ethical lives, wouldn't they stand out in society a bit more, rather than being indistinguishable from their peers? But maybe that's just me...

Anyway, clearly Pierre is hungry for some sort of spirituality and transcendence that would help him make sense of his life, but I don't think Tolstoy is implying that the Masons are it. Maybe they're a step along his spiritual/intellectual journey, but he needs to find his own truth, not embrace a ready-made one.

Excellent points cassandre, it is very cult like isn't it.

Just going to catch up on the chapter and your comments.

Well, that was all very strange and surreal!

I completely agree with your comments cassandre. I think Pierre is allowing himself to be swept along in the hope of finding new purpose in life. He isn't a decisive character and he's very vulnerable at this moment in time. Thanks for those insights.

Thanks for the comment Desdemona about the 'off camera' aspect of Pierre's life. I had forgotten that comment about women that he made earlier on.

We'll see where this will bring him, I suppose!

"In a sense this isn't much of a departure for Pierre, because he's always had the tendency to be quite passive and do as he's told"
I think that's spot on Cassandre

Interesting comments, thanks all.

I found the mason story quite surprising too. I feel like it's one of those things like being a member of an old boy's club that conferred advantages back in the day. I had a close relative who was a mason who worked in a very traditional environment. He hadn't been to university but most of his colleagues had, and I think he felt the mason thing gave him an advantage. This was in the 70s though.

It feels quite different from the pseudo spiritual world Pierre is getting into it, and of course they're happy to divest him of some more of his worldly goods. I hope they'll be a better influence on him than Prince Vassily and Anna. I do feel sorry for Pierre, he doesn't seem to have any one he can really trust.

he doesn't seem to have anyone he can really trust that's so true Stokey He's really on his own. He isn't a particularly likeable character but I do feel sorry for him. He's lost, he's vulnerable. He needs a guardian.

From Gradesaver
Volume II Part 2

Chapter 4
Pierre is initiated into the Masons through a bizarre and mysterious ritual. Although he sincerely admires many of the Masons’ values, he quickly forgets much of what they say to him about their organization.

Thanks Desdemona.
In one ear and out the other, I'd say!

It feels like I’ve suddenly started reading a completely different book!

Definitely Chessie! Though there are many different books, in fact :)

I am embarrassed to say that my first thought on reading the initiation ceremony was Erica Jong's feminist version of Fanny Hill which has a mysterious secret society which is quite reminiscent of all this. Though as I recall, much raunchier. I wonder if this is where she got the idea from.

Yes, it makes sense that Pierre would be drawn to the structure and purpose of the masons. So much of the book seems to be about people quite literally wondering what life is all about and often having quite sudden adjustments to their world view. I'm not sure we've met anyone yet who is "getting it right" - he's very good at flawed heroes/heroines.

From Gradesaver
Volume II Part 2

Chapter 5
Pierre hears that the empress is taking Hélène’s side in his marriage debacle, and that it would be safer for him to leave St. Petersburg. As he is preparing to do this, Prince Vassily visits him and asks him to take Hélène back. Pierre refuses, and departs for his southern estates in what is now the Ukraine.

I quite liked that Pierre finally stood up for himself - old Vasiliy didn't see that coming!

Yes, so am I! 'Go away!' he quavered
Pierre is finally growing a back bone.

Yes, go Pierre! Stick it to the scheming Vassily and his dodgy daughter!

Yes, that was very satisfying.
Don't JADE.
No is a complete sentence

What does JADE stand for?

Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain - don’t get sucked into JADE-ing to assert boundaries with people who are trying to walk all over you, gaslight you, being cheeky fckers (CFs) etc. You need to spend more time in Chat/AIBU @IsFuzzyBeagMise*