The Unconditional Parent -- is this bollocks or for real?

[oregonianabroad]

I haven't read the whole thing yet, but am torn between thinking it is totally revolutionary, and then the next minute I think the guy is smoking crack and wouldn't last 2 minutes with my ds. (of course, he would have an answer for that, another of the things that turns me off about his argument).

It also seems clear that he evaluated all the books on the market and decided to write one with a radically different approach (a discipline book about how not to use rewards/ time outs??? how novel!).

SInce I bought the book on the basis of a few recommendations here, I am interested to hear what you lot think.

there are so many good posts on here this am, I don't have time to point them all out. just want to say that the discussion itself is really helpful, and 100x your first post made me well up.

i am finding it really hard to find the right balance at the moment; it's great to read what other people are doing.

thanks all!!

Interesting thread.
I really feel that my parenting is better and better, having been at quite a low, earlier this year.
I certainly feel a lot happier about it.
How to talk, I really enjoyed - I got it from the library and then bought my own copy.
I have just started on Unconditional Parenting - also from the library.
Will read a bit more, before coming back to this thread.

I've just read through this quickly and wanted to point out something frannyandzoey said.

"I don't like methods such as time out and rewards and I don't think they are respectful or generally helpful, for me (I have used them myself, when losing the plot, or can't see another way forward)"

Imo, that is what things like time out/rewards etc are used for, when there is no other way, which nomally, there is. If we can keep these methods as a last resort, then they can be useful, overuse can render them pointless though.

Dp can be quite quick to go for time out or some other form of punishment (tbf he is new to all this, he's only been stepdaddy for a year, yet I have been mummy for 7) I often find myself, not undermining him, because that is a root cause of many behavioural problems, but asking if I can butt in, and actually asking the children why they have done whatever they have done, or what the problme is.

DS is just about to turn 3 and he sometimes surprises me with how much he can explain his feelings. Children act a certain way because of a feeling, if you can get down to the bottom of what they are feeling and why, the behaviour can vanish as quickly as it started.

Something DS has started to say when he gets frustrated or fed up is 'argh, I'm so angry' through clenched teeth, which dp was really shocked about, and asked what I thought we should do about it, and tbh, I think that a 3yr old identifying anger or frustration and walking away from a situation is a good thing! so I will ask him for a hug and ask him what has made him angry.

I honestly think that if we encourage children to be aware of their feelings and let them know that all these feelings are perfectly normal and ok, then find them a way to help them deal with it there won't be anywhere near as much bad behaviour, and thats without punishments.

Blueshoes - I'm sorry to go on about this. My example of the ds lite etc was to show how I use punishment, in response to your saying you don't think punishments have a place, and that disapproval is enough.

But I'm reassured that you too would swipe the effing thing away for a week because oh just grrrrr.

Oregian - I hope you welled up in a good way? Panic!

hundredtimes I see what you mean.

Taking away the thing for breaking a rule about not taking the thing to bed is logical and not punishment. It is as you said an enforcement of a rule.

Taking away the thing because your ds hit his brother is a punishment because it is not related to the 'crime'.

Splitting hairs, of course

Lol and why not blueshoes.

(Oh god blueshoes, I also did arbitrary punishment too this week. He and ds2 were fighting on the stairs, and I flung them in their rooms and shrieked 'no screens tomorrow.' I did. Wasn't great actually and probably not necessary. I'm just banning screens all over the shop - for no or little reason!)

Punishment is very cathartic, I have to admit. Done a bit of flinging in my time, bad mummy me.

anniemac, I think it would tear our family apart if I didn't 'allow' dp to discipline, he always takes on board everything I say and if there is something he isn't sure how to deal with, he comes and asks me.
But I am currently pregnant with his child, so it would cause divides in the future if he was only 'allowed' to discipline his own. It would probably break DS's heart as well to see the man who he thinks of as 'Daddy' (he was 11months when we started living together) treating him differently to the new baby.
Whether it be a blood parent or a step parent as long as both parents agree on the way discipline i to happen and respect each other, and the children then I don't really see it as an issue.

Victoriansqualor when I have told ds to go upstairs or bribed him in order to get him to do something I want, I don't think that those were my only options or that it was a good thing to do as a last resort. I just did those things because at that moment I couldn't think of anything else to do, or more to the point I could be BOTHERED to think of anything else to do. I don't think it was the best way to deal with it. So I don't think I agree with your post, really, even though I see what you mean.

Annie I think Kohn very much wants us to teach our children about other people's feelings. I think it's a mistake to think his style is all about the child, not at all. However he does feel it is important to encourage appropriate and socially acceptable behaviour in our children as the right thing for people to *do, as members of a community, rather than because your mum might get upset, or because you might get caught and punished, or whatever. We want our children (when old enough to have learnt this) to be trusted not to steal, for instance, even if they know they won't get caught. Always attaching punishments to discipline, encourages children to think that not getting caught is the most important thing, IMO.

"could NOT be bothered", sorry missed that one out

Annie I also wanted to say that I am probably not very good at explaining the nuances, but Kohn does believe that it is how the discipline is experienced by the child that is important. So your example of always feeling very loved by your parents is very relevant to the discussion. My parents rarely imposed punishments but very much used disapproval and withdrawal as a means of control. I rarely felt loved tbh. My mother used to advise me to do this with my ds when he was a baby - "show him you don't like it - turn your face away and don't look at him if he does it again"

I think withdrawal of approval is a more accurate and less emotive phrase as MP suggests - but of course to a young child approval and love are really the same thing, whether we like it or not....

Yes I am not trying to contradict you there Annie. I think it is often experienced as the same though, even if the parent doesn't intend this. Your parents have managed to ensure you felt loved and that is great. I don't think it works like that for every / most children however.

I think it's unrealistic to think that stepparents should not discipline their stepchildren. I often have sole charge of my two stepsons and my daughter, and quite often my stepsons do things that I need to rein in - they swear like troopers in front of my daughter and she copies them, or they display bad table manners, or they get stuck in front of their XBox when they are supposed to be taking a shower and going to bed... endless things that children do. Of course I have to be able to tell them not to do whatever it is they are doing (just as I have to tell them to come for supper, or get ready for school). You cannot have sole charge of children and no responsibility for discipline.

Well mine clearly are not most children then.

I am endlessly snorting and steaming at their messy footwear habits, and their apparant inability to put their shoes on the shoe rack on the hall. I am MOST DISAPPROVING of the chucking the shoes all over the house thing.

But nobody seems to think they at risk of being unloved by this bad habit. Perhaps if they did they might just starting PUTTING THEM IN THE RIGHT PLACE.

Sorry for shouting. Trips over four pairs of shoes in the hall.