The Unconditional Parent -- is this bollocks or for real?

[oregonianabroad]

I haven't read the whole thing yet, but am torn between thinking it is totally revolutionary, and then the next minute I think the guy is smoking crack and wouldn't last 2 minutes with my ds. (of course, he would have an answer for that, another of the things that turns me off about his argument).

It also seems clear that he evaluated all the books on the market and decided to write one with a radically different approach (a discipline book about how not to use rewards/ time outs??? how novel!).

SInce I bought the book on the basis of a few recommendations here, I am interested to hear what you lot think.

Agree re the oven too.

I'm probably a half way house. I do tell off my children, and they do get punished if they overstep the rules. The rules are arbitary to them - like no screens in the bedroom, no tv until the homework is done etc - but not to me.

So if ds1 smuggles his ds lite upstairs, and I find it, I will say 'you're not allowed a screen in your room. Your ds lite is now my ds lite. You can have it back in a week.'

But he's 10. And it isn't like that with toddlers or young children I don't think. It IS more personal to them, whereas to ds1 it is just another example of my utter unreasonableness. And that's ok I think.

It might be because so much of the "guru" style parenting has been around these past few years that it has become part of what people think is normal. When i grew up we didn't have steps (same level apartment) and I shared a room with my sister. So things like "go on the step" or "go to your room" were never part of my parents' vocabulary, so I never use them either. Come to think of it, the rooms did have corners, still my parents didn't use those. There goes my theory...

annie, just curious: why does a punishment have to HURT? Surely, knowing you have done something so bad in the eyes of your parents is punishment enough? You say he understands why he is being punished. Why does he have to be punished?

Teenagers also push limits and learn by trial and error. They also deserve respect for their (eventual) ability to do the right thing. Not saying it happens at once.

Which part of my modelled behaviour taught DC to fight over broken balloons? Hymph...

Hmm this is interesting.

I don't like the phrase "Withdrawal of love" - I think it is too adult-centred - I don't think a child thinks "Oooh mummy has withdrawn her love." I think it is just that I did X and Mummy is Disapproving. I think of it as "Withdrawal of approval" really.

"Withdrawal of love" sounds like the sort of phrase I would come up with if I wanted to make parents feel as bad about themselves as possible...

LOL, lljkk. My DCs delight in telling on each other in the hope the other gets told off. Then they'll feel real remorse and make it up to them. DD (2.8) does this more than DS (8).

agree annie, about how we have to adapt our parenting as our children get older. Like your example below would have worked on a toddler but not my 4 year old, who is a lot cannier.

But the underlying principle is the same. I don't think there is a need for punishments, whatever age. There is no magic bullet of finding the RIGHT punishment to fit any crime. If it is wrong, tell them it is wrong. Model acceptable behaviour. The rest is up to them. Trust.

In that way, I am like you in that way in not over-egging.

Anniemac I don't think Kohn suggests that we shouldn't teach kids that its wrong to upset people, but in teaching them we should explain why its wrong and why it is far nicer to be kind and considerate - and a large part of that lesson comes from modelling that sort of behaviour.

But you see blueshoes a lot of the time, when they are older, it is because they think differently to you.

So take my ds1 and the ds lite in the bedroom. He doesn't think its important to read at bedtime, or to play and not to look at screens at bedtime. Not at all. He thinks he should be able to if he wants to.

I happen to disagree. So that rule exists because I'm in charge. It makes no sense to him.

So if he breaks the rule, I enforce it. There are consequences to him doing that.

I don't think my disapproval would enforce it, because he thinks it's a mad rule in the first place.

He thinks it's mad DESPITE my lengthy and fascinating talks on the power of the imagination, and the pleasure of reading and also the sheer inventive thrill of being bored.

annie, I agree with you. Of course, we must tell a child off if they have been wrong (and god forbid, even raise our voice in doing so). We must tell them if what they do upsets other people (though not necessarily in every instance by way of "mummy is cross" because that would be self-evident).

"When they are a teenager and they already know what is right and wrong and what is acceptable and what is not the role as parent changes". Yes, a teenager generally knows what is right and what is wrong. Therefore, I thought it would be counterproductive to inflict punishment at that stage, because it does not teach them any more. Your job as a parent is pretty much done by then. I speak as a teenager who was never punished - I hope I turned out alright. How does the role of the parent change at that stage?

hundredtimes, I totally get it about your dcs not seeing sense. I still struggle to get my dd to bed at a decent time.

"So if he breaks the rule, I enforce it. There are consequences to him doing that". I would have thought the enforcement just involves taking the ds lite away with a stern telling off (BTW, I have no idea what a ds lite is!). that's it. And the next night, the same etc

Yes that's it - and that is a punishment blue. It is. And its a consequence for having broken the blardy screen rule in the first place.

(Oh a dslite is an annoying hand held little game console).

annie, you sound like a lovely parent. Sorry to give you a hard time about the "cross" comment.

"I didn't want to upset my parents either, not because I was scared of them withdrawing love but because I cared about their feelings". That is the essence of what I am trying to say. If you have a good relationship with your dcs (erm, generally), their wanting to please you is THE motivator of good behaviour on their part. So they just need to know that their behaviour was unacceptable. Plus watching you walk the talk, so to speak.

I am not saying they will comply right away. But it will chip away at their sense of right and wrong over the years and viola responsible and sociable human being at the end of it.

The "withdrawal of love" thing is nonsense IMO.

Love isn't like that. Love isn't something I consciously choose to feel towards my daughter. I love her, I love my partner, and however much both of them can sometimes test my patience that doesn't change.

However, I can consciously choose to care for her in such a way that she grows up to be aware of her own feelings, the feelings of others and the functioning of the society around her. That may sometimes include telling her off, in an age-appropriate fashion, but mostly means an awful lot of explaining.

Oh I see what you mean blu. Yes, you take the ds lite away and keep it for a week.

That's the punishment.

DS1 and I get on v. well, he knows the rules, if he's going to risk breaking them then he knows that the outcome will involve some consequence.

I really think that's okay. Do you not?

hundredtimes, that sounds eminently reasonable. In the face of repeated infringements, I would effing confiscate the thing for a week too.