The Unconditional Parent -- is this bollocks or for real?

[oregonianabroad]

I haven't read the whole thing yet, but am torn between thinking it is totally revolutionary, and then the next minute I think the guy is smoking crack and wouldn't last 2 minutes with my ds. (of course, he would have an answer for that, another of the things that turns me off about his argument).

It also seems clear that he evaluated all the books on the market and decided to write one with a radically different approach (a discipline book about how not to use rewards/ time outs??? how novel!).

SInce I bought the book on the basis of a few recommendations here, I am interested to hear what you lot think.

This has made me think even more than usual about my parenting.

I hate mummy me.

I have always been a calm, laid back person, but having a whirlwind DD, and a very aggressive parenting style friend, I have turned into angry mummy and it is horrible.

I need to try to keep calmer. To remember that she is a child. I know that telling her to tidy up doesn't work, that I need to assist - but then I get all worked up that her friends tidy alone without complaint, forgetting that her friends have been made to by angry mummy from day one.

I think I need more chamomile tea, more organisation at home, and more fun.

With counting to 3, rewards etc - naughty step has rarely helped, counting to 3 tends to be me holding up my fingers and it is more of a warning that my temper is short , rewards - I've always been useless at remembering - we did pasta for a few weeks and she still announces now when I have told her I'm proud of her etc "Pasta mummy?" - she doesn't see it, but being told she deserves it makes her happy!

My heart tells me I should relax more and we will all be happier.

Lovely post Avi and good point Flame. It is very easy to get drawn into the vortex of all the things that need to be done, and then all the fury when they're just NOT done, food just NOT eaten, shoes just NOT put on.

Don't be sad.

Fun is good I think, yes. I rely a lot on humour, probably too much actually, to get us through. But if we all laugh after some disaster then at least that disaster is set in some perspective.

But god knows it isn't easy.

Avi's thing about the puzzle is really good isn't it? I like that. Often it is just about the words we use I think. That's probably why I say 'boring' a lot rather than 'bad'! My poor dcs will grow up thinking they will be unloved if they are boring. Oh dear. But it's such a tired, non-commital word, and it seems to work here, sort of.

And re praise, I see Avi's point completely.

I do praise though, but with meaning. So I do say 'god thank you for clearing the plates ds1, that's a great help because I was feeling tired and I wasn't looking forward to doing it' or 'Huzzah, you tidied your bedroom dd, it looks really pretty and now you know where all your stuff is.'

Sort of thing?

I liked the book. The main thing for me was "is this [whatever you're trying to get your child do] worth damaging the relationship with my child for?". In the case of DS, for example, wearing his hearing aids was non-negotiable and a short-term sulk was worth it. Too many other things aren't.

Instead of praise, you could just say "thank you for [tidying up]" to show appreciation, without the value judgment of "good boy".

It's not totally bonkers, though, Annie. Young children live so much in the present. I see my 2.8 year old asking me, if I'm upset with her, "will you be happy mum?". I find that really sad. She doesn't yet know that of course it will pass and give me 2 minutes i'll be fine again, she isn't sophisticated enough to know she doesn't need to do anything and i'll be alright again.

yes, my 4 year old complains after a scolding "nobody is my best friend"! That is how children perceive disapproval and punishment, a personal rejection.

Sounds like a book I should read....

BTW, to the OP, I don't think that that thought of line is that revolutionary though....Attachement Parenting,I believe, ....works in the no punishment, no starchart etc...way....and that is not that new....

I don't think that kohn is suggesting that telling kids off is incompatible with loving them unconditionally, or with having boundaries. What he is saying is that training them to be 'good' by using punishments and rewards to modify their natural behaviour is denying them the right to feel the way they do and is training them rather than nurturing them, so it seems to me as though you are in agreement with him anniemac

re background etc he is someone I first came across as a teacher, has been around a while and is not a 'parenting guru' à la supernanny and is the first to admit he doesn't have all the answers, or get it right all the time

They know it's over when it is over, not when they are sat on the step. Probably why such punishments stop working with older children as they know they'll get out of their rooms eventually.

In the example about the oven, I don't know why we need to add the bit about being cross and not wanting child to get hurt

isn't it enough to say "the oven is hot and could burn you"? I would rather my child be motivated to look after their own personal safety, rather than not doing dangerous things because it might upset me.

Uhm, i don't know, i haven't got there yet. You could say such kids shouldn't get to that situation in the first place because their inner goodness has been nurtured so long they only do what's right. But that's my DH's skeptical view of Alfie

Sorry, not following the thread quickly enough, that was in reply to Anniemac. I totally agree with F&Z with the oven example.

There sounds like there is a story to tell behind the 13yr old doing something Anniemac!!!

I don't see why you have to say you will be cross if they touch the oven though... surely just telling them that they will be hurt etc should stop them rather than them not doing it because they don't want to make you cross?

Crossed posts!

annie, why do you think it is necessary to ground a 13 year old who did something very bad? Do you not trust that your view that what they did was very wrong (through your voice, disappointment etc) be enough as lesson? Why add the grounding.

The grounding is the bit that is arbitrary (punishment). It is as if you need to stamp the message loud and clear, as if you don't trust them to internalise the message of their own volition.

By doing so, the teenager would focus on the unfairness of the grounding and see it has an abuse of parental power, rather than (as you would see it) a form of guidance of what is good or bad. Hence the problem with punishment is that it takes the focus off the offending behaviour in the child's mind and possibly make the child more determined to avoid getting caught the next time.