Has anyone read 'I Don't Know How She Does It' or 'The Rise and Fall of a Yummy Mummy'?

[litgirl]

Hello!
I was just hoping for a few opinions really! I'm an English Lit student currently writing my thesis on Women's writing, and the opinions around chick-lit, and mummy and baby novels. I am discussing these two novels to illustrate how the characters react against the yummy-mummy myth presented in the media. I would love to hear any opinions you may have about either book, or chick-lit in general, and if you think these novels present mums realistically.

Thank you so much,
Katie xxx

Top post squiffy and I too am more than happy to point the finger at Hugh Grant for anything we care to discuss

Well said Squiffy.

Anna - I too see the sense in what you are saying. Have come from a similar working environment and understand where you are ocming from.

SSD - perhaps some are PUT under more stress than others (work environment, inflexible employers, nature of work, etc...). In my experience, most mothers have a phenomenal threshold for coping.

So here's to:

• young women being educated in a way that at least PREPARES them for the inevitable battles that they will have to face (they are being won every day by strong professional women who refuse to compromise but there are still many more);
• mothers feeling sufficiently empowered to being able to stand up to misogynistic work colleagues without apologising for or worse, trying to deny the fact that they are women and mothers; and
• getting our men to do the bloody washing up so that, for us, having it all really doesn't mean doing it all.

Chin chin.

Ummmmmmm lovely Hugh Grant. I don't consider it as a terrible sacrifice to have been able to be with my kids when they were little, I feel lucky. My husband was sad that he couldn't work p/t too, but as he earns much more than me, this was how we worked it. If it is very gutting for a woman to sacrifice a career, then perhaps she should stay focused on working, rather than starting a family? I do have a firend who regrets having kids, and felt she bowed to pressure from family etc. Really, she loves working, and doesn't enjoy being a mum. So, maybe, rather than trying to have it ALL, and being fed up with juggling, it is a good thing to really consider what we actually want, and then go all out for that, whether it's family, or career, at least for a while. And who says men have it all so good? The pressure on a lot of blokes to work all hours etc is tremendous!

"IMHO, having children is a priviledge, and a decision which should involve a little sacrifive to involve them in your life. Not suggesting for a mo that everyone should be SAHM, but certainly working part-time, career break etc should be done if possible. If you are not prepared to make a sacrifice for your kids, then perhaps you are not really ready to have kids"

Hmmm. Interesting.

Imnot27 - What if you decide children aren?t for you but you accidentally have one and then realise it?s the best thing? What if you decide children are for you but you realise full-time stay-at-home motherhood isn?t? Who decides what level of sacrifice is enough? Is one parent SAH (sacrifice) and the other working twice the time (sacrifice) to make ends meet morally and practically superior to other options? Is someone SAH because financially possible and the other partner working twice the hours because they enjoy it worse because no actual sacrifice is involved? I have cut back to 10 hours a week, DH to 3 days a week and massive career change. For us, this is quite a big thing. Seen from outside by someone who doesn?t know our circumstances this may well be not quite good enough. What would Hugh Grant say?

What if you need both incomes to pay the mortgage? What do you "sacrifice" then? Seems a little glib if you ask me.

What always interests me is why the husband earn more? Is that because the women subcousciously seek someone who will provide so they can give up work and have babies or do men only want lower paid wives? If you marry someone who will earn more or you don't have much of a career of course it's likely you'll end up being the one at home so that and lack of male help domestically are some of the biggest reasons women don't progress at work as well as they might.

I thought that too Anchovy and, as a Kate Reddy cypher but without Bink's caramel ending, couldn't help momentarily imagining myself in that reading group, wilting before the hostile scrutiny of all those sacrificing mothers.

Still, as one RL mother memorably said to me and I've quoted before on Mnet "At least your husband has Multiple Sclerosis so you don't have to feel guilty."

I must now retire from this thread before it stops being about books and morphs into one of those full-on WOHM v SAHM rucks that I've promised myself I will ignore.

Xenia - as I've said before, I don't care at all that my partner earns more than me (though it didn't have to be that way - other options have been available). I think it's very nice and comfortable for all our family that he has a good job he does very well and that provides for all of us. Why is it such a big deal for you? Income is just ONE contribution to a relationship.

Lots of men have "good" jobs which they do very well, but which on their own would not be enough to provide for the entire family or get a mortgage. It's one of the defining conditions of the modern middle-class male - to be judged by your earning ability rather than what else you can bring to a relationship.

Issy - !!!! [too-gobsmacked-even-to-emote punctuation] I haven't seen you quote that before.

Issymum What a stupid woman that must have been.

Issymum - you should know by now that almost every thread turns into a sahm/wohm debate.

Snore.

Yes, I'm glad I'm not in that book group.

(Partly because I think that is a very unsophisticated analysis to draw from that book, as some of the more thoughtful comments on here - vide Squiffy's - show).

Piglit - is your username a play on chick-lit?

Yes - it's funny I've been around for over 3 years and it's only in the last couple of days that anyone's said that! Perhaps people thought I just couldn't spell "piglet"!

it IS an unusual name.

Maybe if WOHM/SAHM is such a recurrent theme, it is because it is the most difficult issue women think they have to contend with?

I don't see WOHM vs SAHM being an issue I ponder much over IRL. I do think about working, about bringing up children, but not in terms of one camp vs another. I only see the "dilemma" on boards like this and I wonder if it's not artificially created sometimes. I can't remember ever discussing it in such black & white terms with my friends IRL.

Everyone makes their decisions based on their own situations and what's best for them/their family. Personally, I think it's one of the most polarised (and boring) debates on MN and always ends up with the same old stuff being said by the same people, often on numerous threads at the same time. That's why I generally avoid these threads.

However, I am supposed to be doing some very dull stuff this afternoon so have wondered onto MN instead of sticking to my spreadsheet.

False dichotomy anyway.

Nobody's circumstances are identical to anyone else's - I think that's the thing having children has shown me most clearly - I kept thinking I was going to suddenly find this great bond of women whose interests were all exactly the same as mine - but no - what you start to see is the endless endless variables ...

And you find kindred spirits for a few of your variables, and some others for some others, & belong to lots of different sets - but no-one's story is the same & every mother thinks she's a minority of one in some way.

[Off topic] Bink: It was a bit of a humdinger although, looking back on it, very funny. The RL mother, whilst discussing the merits of our nanny whom she'd just met at a playdate, had said rather sniffily added that, wonderful nanny notwithstanding, she would 'always want to look after her own children'. Feeling rather defensive, I retorted with what I believed to be the knock down punch that, since DH had Multiple Sclerosis, I didn't enjoy that choice. She flashed back with the 'at least you don't have to feel guilty' comment and I was left metaphorically sprawled on the canvas. I actually can't help admiring the power of her verbal right hook.

Issymum - she was probably just well versed in bitchiness if she found the "right" reply so easily.

decafeskinnylatte, your post of 14.01pm

"SSD - perhaps some are PUT under more stress than others (work environment, inflexible employers, nature of work, etc...). In my experience, most mothers have a phenomenal threshold for coping."

are you getting me mixed up with another poster? I didn't say anything about stress (or have I forgotten?!)

The funny thing though Issymum - is that that exchange, complete with rapiers & surreality, is straight out of a Hugh Grant vehicle.

I'm trying quite hard to draw some sophisticated analysis from that
but somehow feeling stymied