Has anyone read 'I Don't Know How She Does It' or 'The Rise and Fall of a Yummy Mummy'?

[litgirl]

Hello!
I was just hoping for a few opinions really! I'm an English Lit student currently writing my thesis on Women's writing, and the opinions around chick-lit, and mummy and baby novels. I am discussing these two novels to illustrate how the characters react against the yummy-mummy myth presented in the media. I would love to hear any opinions you may have about either book, or chick-lit in general, and if you think these novels present mums realistically.

Thank you so much,
Katie xxx

I remember the editor of Vogue reviewing 'I don't know' and just saying, 'why doesn't she get a live-in nanny'. Think Squiffy is probably bang-on in saying Kate Reddy is a journalist, (dithering, neurotic, self-doubting, questioning, emotional, sentimental) dressed up as a city hot shot (decisive, confident, dynamic, unsentimental, pragmatic) which makes the whole story unconvincing.
Couldn't be arsed to read anything with 'yummy mummy' in the title. Loathe chick-lit.
I like books with murders in!
I did hear Rachel Cusk's book serialised on Radio 4 and thought it was the most appalling load of old rubbish ever. So melodramatic and self-regarding. Blimey, if Xenia thinks that is what life is like at home with kids no wonder she's never tried it! It's simply ridiculous grand guignol. Actually I suspect she was having some kind of severe PND or breakdown as becoming a mother obviously conflicted with her high-faluting ideas about herself.

Cristina - takes two to play... Major issue in my partner's first marriage was definitely that his ex wanted to work all the time, couldn't bear to be with the children... she still can't.

Bink - it is a well-recognised issue in B-school, and one of the major reasons why there is an imbalance of men and women applying for MBAs (and, therefore, graduating with MBAs).

Two of my former classmates who do careers counselling with MBAs did a survey about a year ago to collect data from female MBAs on their career record and the advice they would give with the benefit of hindsight to MBA participants. Unfortunately, one of the major insights was 'don't bother with the MBA'.

Anna - I just thought your attack on Xenia's personal life was below the belt. Do you think you're so against working mothers because you want to be totally different to your DH's ex?

My sister has an MBA. In fact that's how she met her DH, he was a fellow-colleague. They have two daughters now. I think she shouldn't have bothered with an MBA when after all that people management and whatever they teach them she couldn't even hire nannies she'd get on with.

I probably wasn't clear enough - advice to women starting out on their career would be to work in a company with an excellent record for retaining women with children, have your children only when you had an accomplished track record and NOT LEAVE until you had completed your family.

MBAs are useful for people who want to be able to move between companies/countries easily and who want high-flying careers in consulting and finance (all of which are generally pretty incompatible with family life).

Cristina - no, I just AM completely different, of course, and always have been. Why, after all, would anyone choose a partner who was the same as their previous partner when they made them unhappy?

Cristina - I was just retaliating (read the thread before you judge who is attacking whom).

Cristina - actually, I'm not against working mothers at all. Don't know where you got that idea. Lots of my friends are mothers and work.

But I am dead against people (men or women) putting SAHMs down.

Anna - this is going on a tangent now, but I'm sure there are lots of men and women attracted to a certain "type", be it blond/e, ambitious, musical, artistic, whatever. If you had been working, do you think your DH wouldn't have chosen you? I doubt that the working status would have made all the difference in your personality. I don't know.

Cristina - I was working when I met my partner.

All my partners have been totally different from one another - no two physical types, no two nationalities, no two careers, even religions...

Message withdrawn

So he had a problem with working wives? In that case he should be sent for compulsory re-reducation in sexism rather than divorcing and marrying a housewife.

But my more interesting question was why should people with a partner think people who are single like me are unhappy? There's been a tradition in the UK that batchelor - male means great fun life and spinster women means sad lonely life which is incredibly sexist. I may not be saying "women need a man like a fish needs a bicycle" but why an assumption people need a partner at all or separately children to lead happy and fulfilling lives?

Anna - the careers advice you are suggesting would be the most appallingly sexist drivel I have ever heard!

Fancy women going to a careers advisor and being told not to 'bother' doing an MBA as you need to think about your future responsibilities as a mother and therefore go and tether yourself now to an organisation who will look after you once you have your family!

And of course they give the same advice to men too[pmsl]

God forbid that women should want to have an interesting career after having children!

Honestly Anna you are being rather ridiculous!

actually I could see a lot of sense in Anna's advice, I gave up my job 9 yrs ago to bring up my kids and now I want to return to something interesting and well paid I realise I'm totally in the wrong proffession (retail)

wish I'd thought a bit more when I was younger and got a bit of advice like Anna's

Lots of women in retail SSD - why is it a problem?

I work with very high paid women in retail by the way and some mothers. Nothing to stop you sitting on the Tesco etc board and running a company just because you've got breasts.

I also think it would be useful to have advice which said "think how you are going to do this once you have children"

There are various ways you might decide to do it (go back to work full time, take your employer to an IT, etc.,) but i don't think it hurts to be made aware of real life.

I've lost count of the number of young women who confidently asserted that having babies wouldn't stop their careers but then they did. Perhaps if they'd had some inkling of reality beforehand, they might have been better able to combine motherhood with a career they wanted.

I also look forward to the day men are expected and advised on how to get their work-life balance right too.

I'd like something term time so I'm here for my kids during the school holidays

I work p/t at the weekend just now in retail and approached the company I work for to ask if they'd consider term time only, I knew they are inundated with students during the holidays so it's not impossible

they said "no way, sorry"

I've got 20 yrs retail experience and can't get term time anywhere

wish I'd trained as a teacher!!

soapbox - you are entitled to your opinion.

But I do believe that it is good sound practical advice from a group of very experienced women about operating in the real world, as opposed to lots of the idealistic you-must-single-handedly-break-the-glass-ceiling-and-be-nothing-less-than-superwoman idealistic and ideological drivel that gets spurted at women when they are young and not yet wise about the ways of the world.

ssd - thank you.

Quite Caligula!

I have no issue with careers advice that looks to the future and whether one might be factoring in a family at some point (for both men and women).

I have a massive issue with careers advice that tells women not to bother with an MBA but suggests it is fine and dandy for men to 'bother'!

But if they have a mother who works and manages full time work then they will understand what is involved (and a father doing it too). If they only see a housewife they have no way to judge. Another thing girls need to know is freeze your eggs by 30 or it's going to be harder to have babies if you put it off too long. Also if you have babies too late it's usually at exactly the wrong time career wise. But wise girls know all this. I know loads of 22/20 years olds as my daughters are that age and they and the boys all talk about work, life, hobbies, money, trade offs etc

Caligula - I agree about career advice but I honestly don't know how mature I'd have been at 16 when I made my choice for university (I needed to decide 2 years in advance to prepare for the entrance exams) to take on board the reality of having children. I have also changed countries meanwhile, nothing would have prepared me for that. And, surely, thinking "big" ("my life will turn out just right") is part of being a teenager, which is the age when most decide on their future careers.

soapbox - when I was doing my MBA we had a professor of organisational behaviour who, during his lectures, looked at the women in the room (who had paid a very significant sum of money to be there) and said "what are you doing here? your role is to be wives and mothers".