Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell discussion thread - No spoilers until 28 March, please

[CoteDAzur]

A number of us over on 50-Book Challenge thread are interested in reading Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by 28 March. Everyone is welcome to join in, and feel free to start posting, but please refrain from spoilers until 28 March. Enjoy

Well, fair enough, you can't like everything, I guess.

Ok I'm just going to say one quick thing - The Book Thief was not marketed as YA in Australia when it was first published, it was only when it was released in the US that it was marketed as such. Maybe because YA is such a huge thing in America that when books can be marketed as such then they are....

Anyway, can't wait for the TV adaptation. Hoping its as well done as Wolf Hall.

That's interesting, pink.

I have to admit I couldn't get into the Book Thief.

Who would you cast for the TV if you could choose?

I just saw the Book Thief sitting on one of our many book shelves this morning. Maybe I'll give it a go, but I've bought the Ladies of Grace Adieu on kindle, in readiness to read after the last few pages of Bring Up The Bodies (after which I shall miss Hilary Mantel's Thomas Cromwell very much, which is not something I ever expected me to say ).

Only 8 more days to go until the deadline! How are we all doing? Who has finished it and who is about to?

C and p from t'other thread coz I'm lazy

I'm still on with Norrell and Strange on the kindle - 78% through, in fact. I am enjoying it, however I don't feel like I 'know' the two main characters very well. A quite significant event seems to have been 'skipped' over, although I'm sure more will come to light. Hoping to finish it by midweek.

Also:
The footnotes are pissing me off a bit - some are really interesting and add to the story, but I just think there are too many of them and sometimes I lose the flow of the story because of it - particularly on the longer ones. I've taken to reading a chapter then going back to the footnotes. I think this is exasperated by the fact that I'm reading it on the kindle app on my iPad which isn't great with links.

But thus far, I'm glad I'm reading it.

I'm also sniggering a little bit about it being suggested that a book cote really recommends is YA and her apallation (is that a word?!) at the idea...
I have a vision of cote's eyebrows shooting up to her hairline when she read that.

But definitely not a YA book, although I do think it is very accessible to teens with an interest in historical fantasy.

I think I'm in a minority here .. at page 354 and still waiting to be gripped by this book. I tend to like fiction rooted in historical, political or social reality so maybe it's just not for me. It all seems a bit daft and the footnotes are so meandering. Will persevere though ..

Are we all done? What did we all think?

Don't just everyone all talk at once

I'm here but with a very dodgy internet connection on holiday

Has everyone finished? Plot spoiling now allowed. Avoid thread if not yet finished.

What shall we start with? There are some discussion points on SC's website.

When is it actually shown on TV? I can't find any date for it.

I did enjoy the book, and thought the writing excellent.

However, I found the 'death' of Arabella Strange and her husband's reaction to it very glossed over - in fact, for much of the latter part of the book JS barely seemed to notice that she had died.

I would have liked a more in depth look at the way they performed the magic. Hate to compare this with Harry Potter but JKR did cover the learning of the craft well and the spells were named. I think I would have liked to see more of the workings of the magic - that's what I mean

I enjoyed it for the most part ( some parts more than others). Waiting for news about when it's coming on tv.

Yes, I know what you mean duchess.

At times I was a bit 'well, what makes you two so special? Why can't anybody do magic?'

As they were meant to be the only two practical magicians (bar the supposedly fraudulent street performers) I would like to know why this was, despite extensive theoretical study by other, non-practising magicians.

I think I will need to read it again at some point to get a fuller understanding.

Also, I thought JS went a bloody long way about helping out with the Napoleonic wars. I'd have just turned all the Napoleonic forces's weapons into bananas, or something.

'Twould have been a much shorter book if I wrote it

Although I must admit, I did enjoy the Wellington bits in particular.

"As they were meant to be the only two practical magicians (bar the supposedly fraudulent street performers) I would like to know why this was, despite extensive theoretical study by other, non-practising magicians."

That was because all books describing how magic was actually done were hoarded by Norrell, who didn't share them with anybody except his pupil Jonathan Strange. Furthermore, Norrell squished every attempt to train more practical magicians.

The "theoretical magic" books widely available and studied were like books on how delicious the food in Ancient Rome's buffets were, and Norrell's "practical magic" books were the ones with the recipes, IYSWIM.

Ah yes - in fact, now I think about, there were references to books being OF magic and ABOUT magic.

I do think it's a book that will need (and indeed merit) a reread to get a better understanding.

This was my re-read I waited two years to forget it 'enough' to enjoy it like I did the first time.

Will be one of my favourite reads this year I think. But I much preferred the parts with the servants, esp Stephen and the man with the thistle down hair. Those parts I loved more than the Strange and Norral parts.

Re Comparing JS&MrN with Harry Potter - I haven't read the books but watched the first couple of films. HP is written for children and JS&MrN obviously isn't. This shows in a number of ways in HP, but especially in the pervading overall atmosphere of gaiety and flippant mischief, in direct opposition to the dark, foreboding, ominous feeling that is ever-present throughout JS&MrN.

Specifically, how magic is done is very different in HP and JS&MrN: In HP, it is just the uttering of the spell's Latin name. In JS&MrN, Jonathan Strange for example had to figure out the method through which the desired outcome could be reached during war.

And then, of course, you get to hear about all the consequences of magic in the footnotes, like when JS transports Brussels along with its inhabitants to America:

In 1830, a trader and trapper named Pearson Denby was travelling through the Plains country (in North America). He was approached by a Lakota chief of his acquaintance Man-afraid-of-the-Water who explained that in some nearby hills lived a tribe called the Half-Finished People. They had been created very suddenly one summer, but their Creator had only given them one of the skills men need to live: that of fighting. All other skills they lacked; they did not know how to hunt buffalo or antelope, how to tame horses or how to make houses for themselves. They could not even understand each other since their crazy Creator had given them four or five different languages.

Intrigued, Denby sought out the tribe of Half-Finished People. At first they seemed like any other tribe, but then Denby noticed that the older men had an oddly European look and some of them spoke English. Some of their customs were the same as the Lakota tribes’ but others seemed to be founded upon European military practice. Their language was like Lakota but contained a great many English, Dutch and German words.

"Crazy Creator". "Half-finished people". I love it

Ooh, I missed this starting.

I found the bits with Stephen Black slightly odd. I could tell it was meant to be an 'in keeping with the period' tone, but it wasn't quite right, and therefore I felt as if modern ideas about race kept intruding. Anyone else?

clash - sorry! But I still do think it is YA-suitable, if also a good read for adults. As I said before, this is in no way an insult. It's just, to me, it's partly a coming-of-age story, which is really the only fair justification for the Harry Potter comparisons: both are stories about worlds that are changing rapidly, where people have to make decisions about identity and morality in the way you do when you're growing up. But, of course, they are very, very different books too, and HP much less well written. It also reminded me a lot of Wynne Jones's novels where she plays with historical voice and magic - in a good way. She also has a version of the Tam Lin story, which resonanted with me. And it's a very little bit like Susan Price's Dark is Rising. Same feel.

I loved the footnotes about Catherine of Winchester and so on. I just thought the names of the golden age/silver age magicians were so perfectly chosen, and that is something I'm really picky about as it is actually quite hard to do. And jars so much when it's wrong.

But, I still do think it would have been better edited down.

Anyone else just see the trailer on BBC1 - it's coming soon apparently

I couldn't make the preview of the first two episodes and never went back to the book but the trailer is very exciting.

Oooo! V. exciting!