The Black Moth - Georgette Heyer

[lazymonkeyface]

Is today when we review it?

Is there already a thread? I can't find it. Can someone link if there is?

If there isn't - I just couldn't get on with it. I'm still not passed chapter 5. It's awkwardly written for me and just too much information, like she was trying to be too cleaver iyswim.

The Black Moth was her first book, it's very 'of its time', when historical fiction was all rather Baroness Orzy-ish. She didn't really get going until she found the late 18th/early 19th century, and started writing romantic comedies. There are about three or four of the ones set in the pre-1789 period all of which are stuffed with deliberately archaic language and frankly clonk - The Masqueraders, These Old Shades...

Stories like Arabella, Venetia, The Reluctant Widow, Cotillion - when she'd really found her voice - have stood the test of time much better, and to me are perfect comfort reading. One of my sisters and my MIL are also addicted, we swap our copies round from time to time, although MIL has had Arabella for ages now and I really want it back (looking at weather forecast, the sofa calls!)

I was just logging on to get something started if it wasn't running, and yes I think this is our thread.

I did (re)read it, and enjoyed it although it's flawed as hell - I wouldn't have spotted that she was 17 when she wrote it, but she obviously has a lot to learn.

Issues arising:

This isn't a Regency Romance per se. Heyer's take on the period throughout her books is that morals tightened up a lot between 1750 and 1810 but I don't know whether that's visible in this book.I guess the difference is that Andover's behaviour is tolerated by all and sundry, but it's tough to make the distinction between historical moral changes and Heyer finding a better distinction on what behaviour readers would accept, and what punishment would be required.
Our hero laughs off the fact that Andover abducted the love of his life, once he's calmed down. I can't see that happening in the later books, and I think Andover would have had to have been killed off.

What I liked,
Richard and Lavinia, Miles and Molly and Lavinia's wastrel younger brothers showed the makings of the couples we see in later novels, flawed and humorous. I liked Harry Lovelace the spurned suitor as well. Jim the devoted servant I can take or leave - I never have much time for Heyer's comedy servants.

Much more to say, but will revert later.

So i should keep going then? I really want to finish it, but i'm finding it hard. I like These Old Shades, it didn't seem as stuffy to me.

I have no idea why I wrote Cleaver. I meant, of course, Clever in my OP

It's got the odd flash of signs of things to come, but really I think it's a period piece and for entertainment I'd be much happier with the later ones. I agree with Dilys about the comedy servants, but they were very much part of the genre - I've read a Jeffrey Farnol, just out of curiosity, and it had exactly the same types of characters.
I'd guessed about Cleaver btw! Maybe it was subconscious - you'd like to take a cleaver to this book?

I also enjoyed it more than I was expecting but would definitely agree that it isn't a patch on her later Regency novels.

I find the dialogue in her later novels more realistic - it seems quite forced in this, almost as if she's parodying the way she thought they spoke although I suppose that could be down to her age and lack of writing experience.

It seems much less developed than her Regency novels too - there are almost too many characters and sub-plots going on. I couldn't really decide whether it was supposed to be a novel about the Duke or Jack or Richard; none of them really seemed to be the main hero and none of the plot lines struck me as the main theme of the novel.

Oh, and Miles' 'oirish'-isms drove me mad.

I quite liked the book, although I don't think I would have read any more of this had been the first.

In a way it was like a prequel to These Old Shades, although it was obviously written first.

Diana was not a very exciting heroine, and actually none of the characters were terribly interesting, although Molly and Sir Miles are quite likeable.

I am very interested to see how quickly the style evolves.

I would finish it though OP, because the denouement is a lot of fun - it's a classic Heyer ending with thrills, laughs and everybody pairing off. And if you're only five chapters in you haven't got into the Richard and Lavinia plot, which is by far the best bit IMO.

Heyer tried the High Tragedian style a few times but tbh she never really did it with much conviction, we read her for the comedy, and even at this stage I think she's working that out as she writes. The whole "I must sacrifice myself for Honour" plot, which is a classic late Victorian Edwardian trope of popular fiction which I assume Heyer picked up from her own teenaged reading, is frankly a bit silly, and essentially the plot is resolved by everyone realising that it's a bit silly.

The whole tone of it is very "arch", I don't like the "Miss Di" rather than using her actual name, and there's far too much of people "crying" rather than saying or replying or calling.
However I did enjoy it more than I thought I would as I've refused to reread it for years and years.
Will come back with more in depth analysis when not on my phone

Yes, Dilys, the fact that Jack is shunned from all polite society for cheating at cards, to the extent that he has to become a sort of Robin Hood style highwayman just doesn't ring true. I can believe that he may have had to live abroad, but not that he would have to become an outlaw.

Evening! Glad to find you!

I hadn't read the Black Moth before, even though I've read and reread most of the others - I guess I'd heard it wasn't as well regarded as most others.

I have a feeling I'll enjoy it more at a second reading, because next time I read it I won't be puzzled by how she is describing the villain, who is easily the most interesting character in the book. I agree with Dilly that his villainy is much more tolerated than in her other books.

I found the premise of Jack leaving the country to not feel believable, and that undermined the extent to which I could get interested in him as a character. And the fact that when the truth came out it made little difference to the real cheat (ambiguous in case people haven't got to that bit!), just added to the feeling that the exile was all a bit pointless really.

I think the Andover / Frank Fortescue relationship is interesting, like it's meant to show a redemptive side to Andover, or maybe just s device to show the reader a little of what's in his head.

Glad I read it, still enjoyed it overall. I think Molly was my favourite character.

Hah - can't believe so many people are saying bits of the story aren't believeable. It's Georgette Heyer, folks - you know, who frequently has governesses marrying Marquises and so on, which is hardly likely...

I agree though that it's not one of her better ones. Jack and Diana are a bit too "good" and lacking the banter that later couples have.

I love it, for me Georgette Heyer is all about escapism...I don't really care if it's believable or not. Apart from a couple of exceptions (These Old Shades, Cousin Kate) I really enjoy Georgette Heyer books & have very worn copies of most of them!

I first found GH when I was about 16, but I only read 'The black moth' for the first time a couple of years ago (I could never find it in charity shops!) I had no idea until I re read it today, that the Duke of Andover was the Duke of Avon in 'these old shades'!!!!!

I didn't know that either, am going to have to re-read it again now!

pinkhebe Get out!!!! Was he really? where did you pick that fact up?

That's what I said earlier, about it being a sort of prequel to These Old Shades.

Minipie, when I mentioned that it seemed unbelievable that Jack would become an outlaw, it was from a historical context. Many of GHs novels are very historically accurate, and do reflect the social mores of the times she wrote about. I agree that some of the matches are unlikely, however!

It is a prequel of sorts. I knew about Devils Cub, but I hadn't realised that an infamous army was a sequel to Regency buck and also Devils Cub But that isn't suprising as I couldn't finish an infamous army.

Thanks wilipedia

wiki link

See, I don't think that he 'had' to become a highwayman. He describes himself as a Robin Hood figure and there is mention of him giving his illgotton gains to the poor.

I thought she re-used the character of the evil Duke so he morphed into the Duke of Avon rather than them actually being one and the same person.

That was my take on it anyway.

It's fascinating to read it and see how her writing, plotting, characterisation improved over time. I wish I could've written that well when I was 17.