I F - 5:2 - 4:3 - Maintaining the healthy weight

[TalkinPeace2]

This thread is for those who have been doing IF for quite a while and are now at or nearing their target healthy weight.

How do we experience fasts and balance a stable food intake while having little or no weight to lose?

How to we ensure that this WOE does keep us at the healthy weight long term rather than revert to yoyo games?

I have now been at the same weight for a month. I'm happy with that. I'm also still enjoying the 24 hour fasts because of the clear mindedness I get during them.

How about you?

Nice Cats..im sure you are better off without him now.. .and .although i suppose Vicky Pryce is going to get it for perverting the course of justice .. I did have a little cheer when they reported on the beeb that she'd dobbed Chris Huhne in as revenge after he had left her..

I'm happily married BTW but is DH 2 (well the first one was H1 but there was no D in it !!)

Sorry blokes I do of course know not all of you are like that! ..

I like the phone alarm idea though.. I could do that on my work Outlook.. we are just about to move into a building with 5 floors ,so perhaps i could walk down to the lobby then fast back up to the top a every 45 mins or so..
...Well i dont go out for regular smoke breaks like some ..

Sarah I remember you starting c25k, same week as me (only I stopped at wk 2! )

How are you doing?

now I have building envy laska! I'm only on the second floor - I do go down to talk to people on the first floor rather than ring them though and then run back up the stairs . I am not a natural athlete and physical exercise is not my idea of fun. I've done sports at school but not been sporty. I would love to walk more - quite fancy the ramblers, but some walkers are hard core - the last time I tried doing a decent walk with a couple of walker friends I was very as I held them back considerably in terms of pace.

but I've now outed myself cats I think there is only one building that tall on the IOW.. (well which isn't behind a prison wall ) ...

well only on the IOW, and probably only within that building would anyone know about the newly-slim woman doing 5:2 I think you're safe - it's not like it's a news worthy building like the shard!

... but the County Press is a bit like the Evening Argus
(you can tell I used to live over there!)

When you transfer the Shard to the IOW you get the Koan .....

Laska, I finished W9 last Friday (what with a bad cold, the snow which made it treacherous underfoot, and something else, I forget now, it took me several weeks extra to finish). I'm still very slow though, so I think I might try and consolidate and see if I can speed up a bit, rather than run further. but I have to admit, this weather is really putting me off! It was definitely a struggle at times, but I think a large part of the struggle is in my head rather than anywhere else! Definitely found W5 a mental challenge

I quite like it TIP2 ....well I dont see it as being at all contentious! But then I'm an Overner....

I must go . I'm posting so much on here its beginning to look like my thread....

Impressed, Sarah.. see, I do need a good kick...

OK, I'll PM MOB and tell him of the collective vow you've all taken not to take umbrage if he sounds out of order!

Thanks for your concerns - I am a lot better, I was up for three hours this morning and again this evening. I just feel achy and not quite up to the mark, if you know what I mean. I'm eating well, which probably means I've put on a couple of pounds - but we all know how to deal with that, now, don't we? ;)

I'll have tomorrow off and then resume normal service on Thursday, all being well!

Mike Mosley's prog about exercise is here still, on iPlayer:
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01cywtq/Horizon_20112012_The_Truth_About_Exercise/

As I remember it, he made a comment on Twitter about getting 3 x 20 seconds of intense activity by just 'stepping' on the first step of the stairs. Haven't tried it yet, but I intend to. Again, IIRC, if you can fit that in, and get up and move around frequently, that's all you need to do.

On either thread number 9 or number 10 there was a link - possibly by TiP to a video which showed you how you could walk a mile indoors. Was it called simply 'Step'? I'll have to go back and have a look.

I've message the MiserableOldBastard too :-) He'll relent

Step video was not me - interesting to see his HIIT bits on te telly the other night - they are bringing that in at the gym so I will watch to see how it goes.

I must admit that if I could get away with not exercising I would (my nickname should be Sloth) but I've done a lot over the years, aerobics, weights, running, walking and had to make myself do it.
Now I go line dancing 2 times a week for 2 hours each and it's very energetic but I love it as the music is great and the people are lovely and we have such a laugh. DH does it too and we also dance for charity and go to a social once a month. On my fast days I drag myself out into the garage (gym) and walk on the treadmill whilst watching the box set of The West Wing. I make myself watch 2 episodes at a time which adds up to 1 hour 20 mins, and the time just flies by.
If I didn't have something to watch I wouldn't go out there - it's cold in the winter and too hot in the summer but I really do need to keep moving as I'm at that age where ones joints start to rust up if not used

B&W, do please report back about your stair stepping experience. I've been wanting to try some HIIT. I don't have any exercise equipment but stairs are readily available. I suppose even some vigorous running in place or jumping jacks would do the job. Just have to get up and do it. Maybe this discussion will give me the prod I need.

I watched the HIT horizon a year ago when it first came out. We put an ordinary bike onto a static trainer, which is what cyclists use to train indoors, in our sitting room! Not the most attractive piece of decor but its convenient and faces the TV. It's MUCH better to ride than an exercise bike.
I have APPs which you can programme to do whatever intervals you like.
Dr MM recently advocated 20 second bursts of hard work whenever you can (eg x2 while the kettle boils) plus 20 minutes brisk walking per day plus get up and move every 20 minutes all day. 20 plus 20 plus 20.
Does anyone know of a wrist mounted timer that just vibrates? That would be great for the every 20 minutes bit.

Now all we need is to encourage cyclistist to post again . ! Wotcha bro I know you are lurking out there somewhere ...

On the question of maintenance and the benefits thereof, I just came across an interesting study from ten years ago here (Mattson is one of the authors):

www.pnas.org/content/100/10/6216.full.pdf+html

The summary says (emphasis added . . . but, alas, it doesn't seem to appear properly):

"Dietary restriction has been shown to have several health benefits
including increased insulin sensitivity, stress resistance, reduced
morbidity, and increased life span. The mechanism remains unknown,
but the need for a long-term reduction in caloric intake to
achieve these benefits has been assumed. We report that when
C57BL6 mice are maintained on an intermittent fasting (alternateday
fasting) dietary-restriction regimen their overall food intake is
not decreased and their body weight is maintained. Nevertheless,
intermittent fasting resulted in beneficial effects that met or
exceeded those of caloric restriction including reduced serum
glucose and insulin levels and increased resistance of neurons in
the brain to excitotoxic stress. Intermittent fasting therefore has
beneficial effects on glucose regulation and neuronal resistance to
injury in these mice that are independent of caloric intake."

The report includes this intriguing bit:

". . . rats with a moderate reduction in
IGF-1 levels live longer, whereas those with a greater decrease
in IGF-1 levels have a reduced life span (20). The latter results
suggest that there is an optimal level of the GH?IGF-1 axis to
maximize survival in mammals."

Interesting, Natasha thanks for that.

So you can have too little IGF-1 as well as too much. Well, that's not so surprising - we need a balance in most things.

Wonder why it wasn't mentioned in Horizon?

My guess is that a 5:2 WOE regime wouldn't drive your IGF-1 too low. You'd probably have to go into a more severe fasting regime for that to happen. Or am I being just a cock-eyed optimist? Has been known!

Certainly a maintenance regime should be safe, I would have thought.

Would you like to stick that post on the T&L thread, Natasha?

"Would you like to stick that post on the T&L thread, Natasha? "

Done.

"So you can have too little IGF-1 as well as too much. Well, that's not so surprising - we need a balance in most things."

Yes, it does make sense, B&W. Some of the "repair" work that fasting promotes (not to mention normal "maintenance" - all the body's cells get replaced over a 7-year period) and surely the appearance of new neurons require growth of new cells.

Thanks for the blogilates reminder, literarygeek. It's on my to-do list. I just need the time and mental space to shake up my normal exercise routine.

i'm another sloth who loathes exercise. but as soon as the snow starts melting I want to start walking 6 days a week. I need to buy a pedometer soon!

just found an app for my phone to track my walking yay! so now I just need nicer weather and i'll start

Thanks Laska for missing me here! Thought I would be imposing on you all as I still have a lot to lose. But will pop in and interpret this thread as maintaining this WOL, thinking of it in terms of weeks, months, years - as TiP2 put it so beautifully! All you friendly souls are still the only ones who know I'm on this health kick - for there are lots of scoffers in real life. And this is too precious for me to expose to those know-it-alls!

Someone I dance with asked how I've lost all my weight and so I gave her all the info and she has lost 8lbs so far. Yesterday she gave me a page from 'Womans own' mag saying that Dr MM's diet was featured. Well, I wasn't expecting much from that mag but what I read was typical.
It's called the Fast Plan and advocates ADFing, eating 700 cals on your 'on' days and 2100 on your 'off' days. The 'on' days food suggestions are 3 small meals consisting of the usual low fat foods and bread, toast, pasta, pitta bread, chicken, fruit and veg.
The 'off days' consist of 3 meals of your choice a day plus snacks.
Towards the end it says if you can't manage ADF then try 2 days 'on' and 5 days 'off' - no mention of changing the amounts of calories if changing to 5:2.
At the end there is a link to the W.O. Diets food diary which you can download for a free seven day trial! The benefits they list are low blood sugar and cholesterol but do warn diabetics and those with eating disorders not to do it.
So the vultures are out, joining the bandwagon and changing the basis of this woe and so the confusion starts.

Good morning all, haven't had much of a chance to catch up with the Threads recently as have had to take on some extra work to 'keep the wolf' (aka bailifs) from the door....working part time is great and this WOL is cheap but those increased heating bills have got to be paid for some how .

Well, have lost ALL the weight gained over yuletide and have that 'slim' feeling back. So the battle has moved on to maintaining the weight and the health benefits....in short, trying to get a balence that will keep this WOL beneficial in the long term. For me, the greatest strength of this WOL is the fact it's adaptable and very hard to fall off. With diets, be they low cal, low carb, low fat etc you'll probably get good initial weightloss but they are not a Way of Living in the modern world. It is very very hard to stick to them for a couple of years let alone for decades - not to mention the possible negative effects of restricting one aspect of your nutrition long term. With this it is a true WOL and adapts to your life. I started ADF, went 4:3, tried 5:2 (strangely for a man who loves his food I found 5:2 hardest) and am now 6:1 with a low protein day thrown in 1 day a week.

5:2 was difficult and not enjoyable as I tended to eat much too much on unrestricted days (didn't stop me losing weight albeit slowly) but I didn't enjoy the feeling of being so stuffed 5 days a week. With 6:1 I feel (so far), great after the Fast day but don't feel the urge to stuff my face with unhealthy food on unrestricted days. My one concern about going to 6:1 is whether it will still give me the health benefits I achieved with 4:3, already I'm waking up a bit more drowsily , something that had completely changed on 4:3 despite getting less sleep.

But as I say IF, be it 4:3 or 6:1 is a good way of controling weight and can be adapted to suit the individuals needs whatever their lifestyle and taken on long term. There is no 'falling off' as there is always another day to do the Fast, and all it takes is one successful Fast to get back in the swing of things.

Another great thing I've learnt from this WOL, is ways to get through those 'difficult times' during the day. Coping strategies I've learnt from people on here have been:
The half hour test (How much do I want that slice of toast, leave it half hour if I still want it then I'll have it)
Dragonfly vanilla tea (sweet but low in cals)
Soup, soup, and yet more soup (before this WOL I hardly touched the stuff)
Loads of veg
Chillie sauce ( Laska )
Sugar free gum (although I try and limit this because of what I've learnt from TiP2 about artificial sweetners
Not eating untill late
Changing the food I have in the house

One of the biggest revelations has been the discovery that there's 2 types of hunger. HEAD hunger and STOMACH hunger. Try it, next time you think you're hungry ask yourself whether it's your head or your stomach that feels the hunger. If it's your head, try the 30 minute test.

Hope you don't mind my ramblings above, just wanted to share how I feel about this WOL after 7 amazing months. And lastly a huge thanks to Greeneggs for starting the original thread, I definiately would not have had so much success on this WOL if it wasn't for what I've learnt from others on these Threads and the support we've all shown eachother.

Have a great day all

A quick question for the experts here! A friend swears that with just an hour's brisk walking and cutting out 3 sugar teas and replacing with green tea, he's come down two notches on his belt. Of course guys lose weight annoyingly fast, but what do you all think about the weight-loss effects of green tea?