How do weight loss injections work alongside a very low calorie diet?

[ChubbyGroundhog]

Hi all - I am woefully ignorant about WLIs so thought this would be the place to ask the questions?

I'm currently on VLCD that says its GLP-1 compatible. But, if I'm already on 500-800 calories a day, with a nutritionally complete diet, what can WLIs help with?

Would I eat even less than what is daily for VLCD?

Do WLIs mean people eat their normally recommended deficit based on TDEE or does it mean people eat similar to VLCD?

I just don't know if WLIs will work for me, alongside VLCD, or should I get a consultation to ask?

Thanks so much and hope everyone is smashing goals whatever the chosen method!

you just wont feel very hungry most of the day or want to eat much - so if willpower is an issue it will help

No if you are getting on with the vlcd keep going. Injections are great but you choose one option or the other, not both.

500-800 kcal is mad - is this medically advised IE to reverse diabetes?

WLI are great for gradual reduction and stabilising on a healthier diet and habits. They weren't created to support crash dieting. Are you actually obese?

If you are able to stick to a VLCD consistently and it's working for you then you don't need to take a medication like Mounjaro/Wegovy. They help you to stick consistently to a reduced calorie diet, which could be a VLCD meal replacement plan if you wanted it to be, or just a normal reduced calorie diet.

My GP who prescribed my Mounjaro was very clear about the do’s and don’ts when she prescribed it for me and you’re definitely not supposed to take WLI on a VLC diet!!

Those diets are not remotely healthy for any long term use, a couple of weeks at most unless under direct medical supervision. You risk losing muscle mass and bone density if you stay on them for a longer period.

Are you medically obese or just wanting to drop half a stone?

If your bmi is over 30, maybe look at using WLI instead of the VLCD as this is a much healthier way to lose the weight.

WLI help you to lose weight by helping you to feel full for longer eating smaller portions of normal meals and prioritising protein and fibre rich foods and low carbs. Some people suffer bad side effects feel if they consume too many carbs or fatty foods on WLI.

In many cases, it also helps retrain you into eating more healthily overall as it cuts down the desire to eat junk food or drink alcohol to excess.

Thanks all.

My BMI is around 27 currently so I have about 2 stone to lose and height 5'2".

I want to be in the middle of the healthy BMI range so 20/21 BMI.

If you are managing to stay on 500-800 calls day then you won’t get any benefit from WLI

maybe wait until you start coming off your VLCD abd see if you need support then

I'm 5' 3" and my BMI is now 26. I've got about 7lb left to lose.

WLI have helped me to lose nearly 10st (over 27 months).

If you're managing on your VLCD diet, you don't need WLI as well. WLI just help you to feel full for much longer and they quell the food noise.

but... taking the injections results in a VLCD.... ?

VLC means Very Low Calorie... not Very Low Carb...

No they don’t, or they shouldn’t do. Where did you get that idea from? 😂

VLCD’s usually consist of replacing normal meals with powder based shakes and consuming less than 800 cals a day. It’s a very short term solution to drop a few pounds. I did them years ago when I only needed to lose about a stone. Long before menopause hit!

On WLI, you’re supposed to eat normal healthy meals that are high in protein and low carb and use your TDEE as a guide so you should be eating at least 1200cals a day, and probably much higher if you have more than 5 stones to lose when you’re starting out.

Low carb isn’t the same as no carbs. I think you’re confusing yourself.

800 sounds dangerously low and should only be done with medical supervision for a short time and specific medical reason which I can't see being justified at your BMI. I don't think 500 is recommended anywhere. You may lose weight quickly but you will lose muscle and energy and so will be at very high risk of putting what you lose straight back on again with interest. A healthy rate of loss would be 1-2 lb per week.

It just stops you feeling hungry.

500-800 calories at an overweight BMI is insane. You won’t qualify for WLI.

Thanks. There's tons of information about VLCD online so no need to worry about me and if they are suitable. I've done that for myself and all is fine. If anyone has questions about their individual circumstance, there is lots of information available and they can refer to their own GPs, if appropriate.

It's the WLIs I was curious about to use alongside, or instead of, VLCD depending on the end result of it in a few weeks.

All, can I respectfully ask that opinions on the safety of VLCD is not questioned as it pertains to me, please?

Fast800, and many other programmes, have information out there about whether or not these diets are safe, under what circumstances, how long for etc.

The safety or suitability of a VLCD, for me, is not in question.

WLIs aren't viewed by many as safe, either, but I hope when people ask questions about them on the appropriate section, they are not bombarded with opinions of safety in lieu of addressing the actual question to hand.

is almost impossible to eat a lot off ood on WLI

VLC is not carbs its calories....

I lost 5 stone on the LighterLife shakes and soups around 20 years ago. Two years after reaching my goal weight I had regained all the lost weight, with an extra stone on top.

The "consultant" aka the woman selling the powders, allowed me to continue buying them for much longer than the recommended time you were supposed to stay on them, because I had so much weight to lose.

I lost the weight, my hair fell out in clumps and you could see my scalp all down my parting, despite the powders supposedly containing all necessary nutrients.

I must have also lost a lot of muscle, because by the time I reached my goal weight and started slowly reintroducing some real food I was hungry as a starving wolf. Nothing filled me, and the gnawing from my stomach kept me awake for hours if I didn't get up and gobble down sandwiches to quiet it.

I realise now that 4 months of shakes and soups made entirely from synthetic ingredients would have damaged my gut microbiome horrifically. Healthy gut microbes protect against obesity, but back in 2007 few people realised that.

I heard a Zoe food science podcast, ordered a box of assorted live kimchi, kombucha and sauerkraut, added kefir to my weekly grocery order and started eating a few tablespoons of kimchi and a glass of kombucha at breakfast, making sauerkraut salads for lunch and having kefir and a piece of fruit after my evening meal every day.

Without reducing my calories, but weighing and logging everything I ate on myfitnesspal. At the time my BMI was 62.5 and I continued to eat as "normal" between 3000 and 4600 calories each day of that first week, and weighed myself because the myfitnesspal algorithm warned that I should expect to gain several kilos if I ate the same amounts for the next five weeks. Instead I lost 10.5 kg that first week, and 9 the next week, before the weight loss gradually settled at around 3kg/month for the next year. I did reduce my daily calorie intake by around 200 calories each time my BMI dropped to a point where the weight loss stalled.

It took a couple of years to get down to an overweight BMI, and the weight loss had slowed to around half a kilo/month. I needed to reduce my daily calories to 2000 but found myself regularly eating more than intended. Which was when I started GLP-1 injections, and was then able to continue lowering my calories by 200/day whenever the rate of loss stalled.

My BMI is now down to 26, I have been eating at least four portions of fermented food every day for 4 years. I still weigh and log everything I eat and have become an expert at getting 100g protein and 40g fibre out of the 1400 calories I currently eat 6 days a week (I take Sundays off to "refeed"). I always have a tablespoon of unfiltered extra virgin olive oil, 15g nuts, a square of 90% dark chocolate, and between 70 and 130 different plants/week. I have learnt to read labels and put back anything that contains UPF ingredients (which means I now have to ignore the bakery and dessert shelves, since almost everything contains mono and diglycerides of fatty acids or dodgy gut damaging gums like carrageenan).

The changes I have made to my eating habits, and the 18 hour overnight fast that gives my gut microbes time to perform their gut maintenance roles and poo out their beneficial short chain fatty acids are so ingrained now that I am not worried about regaining all the weigh afterwards. Well, that and the fact that I am lucky enough to be able to afford to stay on a maintenance dose of Mounjaro or Retatrutide when that becomes available here.

If you have the willpower to stick to such a low calorie diet then I can't see how wli will help.

You're doing well sticking to your VLC diet, WLI would help compliance but have side effects and associated costs so if you don't need them I'd steer clear.

If you don't exoect to reach target weight through your diet then you may want to consider them for when you come off it to continue losing weight..

I did Fast800 and it greatly improved my health markers but I was so hungry there was no way I could continue more than a few weeks. I maintained my loss though, it was a good way to change eating habits over a short time.

There's a big gulf between can't eat a lot of food and a Very Low Calorie Diet though. The most generous definition I've seen of a VLCD is max 1200 calories a day, and OP is on much less than that. A person losing weight on WLIs can easily be eating more than that, as long as their TDEE is more. I lost about 20% of my body weight on MJ and I don't think I've ever eaten only 500 calories in a day in that time!

Anything to do with WLI is absolutely bombarded with opinions and off-topic theories about them.

If you are on a VLC diet and it is working for you, why do you want to add in WLI too?
As you have a BMI of 27, do you have other problems that would allow you to get a prescription for WLI? As the criteria is normally over 30 BMI (I think there is one pharmacy currently allowing off- prescription dosing, but I don't know much about it).

Would I recommend them alongside each other? No, not really.
If you are managing to stick to a VLC diet, you clearly have willpower. Mounjaro is basically liquid willpower to me, so you don't need it.
And TBH, I would be worried that a VLC diet, combined with not feeling hungry or the urge to eat as often could very easily lead to an eating disorder. You need to eat whether you are hungry or not to lose weight on Mounjaro healthily IMO, which doesn't really fit from what I understand of a VLC diet.

Thanks for this. I only wondered because the VLCD programme is selling bundles which they say compliment GLP-1s so I wasn't really sure how that worked.

Upon closer look following comments here, they are stating that VLCD assists because it is hydrating and nutritionally complete and can be altered depending on needs at the time, etc.

Everyone suggesting that there is no need for VLCD and WLI, makes sense, though.

I appreciate the help!

I would suggest getting advice from your GP. You'll just get a load of opinions and conflicting info here.

Op, you will loose a lot of muscle on this diet, and you will not like whay you see in the mirror when you hit goal. It is also likely your hair will fall out. But there is no doubt your body will look like a deflated ballon, with empty breasts and a flat backside, it is much better to lose 1-2lbs a week, eating 1200 cals a day plus, and ensure you consume enough protein to protect muscle as far as possible and do strength training to do the same.

weighf loss is about much more than the number on the scales, and you will come to realise that. Rebuilding it, to fill out your skin, will be a long and hard road.

From what I've seen of various weight loss programmes- VLC diets, slimming world, Weight Watchers, Team RH- most of them have now added a 'GLP-1 plan' option to their ranges. I presume it's because they've seen a massive drop in numbers of people joining them and need a new marketing method, rather than them actually developing something new specifically for WLI users.